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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 179
# 21
06-14-2013, 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by khamseenair View Post
It didn't help that one of them came in, cloaked, and then just sat there doing nothing.
It's entirely possible that you failed simply because of this.

I've run the fleet action under the same situation, although admittedly I had two commanders and two lt. commanders, and completed it fine. (Granted it was Gorn and not Romulans.)

I did have to throw out some heals and support for the others but since I can solo half of a wave with no problems and the starbase was tier 4/5 we simply took each wave one half at a time and let the starbase tank the other half for the minute it took to kill the first half.

On the other hand, I've failed this when there were two other VA's and two Lieutenants because one of the VA's afk'd and the other kept dying to massed Klingon fire.

The AFK's in my opinion are the worse evil.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 235
# 22
06-14-2013, 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc8219 View Post
Ok so you expect him to solo the entire mission then? From the looks of your performance in a Fleet alert you wouldn't have been much help to him either and he would have ended up also having to carry you. If you are dying twice as a sci which is tankier then a tac escort you are the one people should be angry with, not someone who did make an honest effort to try at first then backed off realizing the situation was hopeless. I would have just warped out myself, no point in getting a 30 min lockout with no marks to show for it.
I don't expect anybody to solo anything. I expect them to fight for marks though. Even if he killed two or three ships instead of cloaking it could have possibly finished a wave for more marks.

Yes, it was a subpar build for even me, one I won't be using again in fleet alert. I showed up in a free science ship without DHC's (gasp). I counted on one or more tac captains or dhc wielding ships to participate and they didn't or they were level 20ish.

I have been the person that carried that event enough times to be able to ignore your insults regarding my skill, and to expect people not to quit on me or the other two players trying hard.

I do expect him to die trying, not hiding in a corner. Tell me they wouldn't take your command away from you if you pulled that as a fed, or executed you as a klingon.

Baseball analogy: run out every ground ball.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,974
# 23
06-14-2013, 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourxgamer View Post
As much as I dislike being unevenly matched, if I had been in that fleet alert with you, you would have been the one I was most angry with.

I used my level 50 kdf rom sci captain the other night for the first time in fleet alert. Where I'm normally there with scatter volley, rapid fire, torp spread etc, I showed up with normal sci abilities this time. Sure enough, several low level players queued along with lower dps level 50's so we got behind early. I used gravity well but nobody would fire on those targets. I threw my limited heals around without receiving any, so I blew up twice where I normally don't at all. At about 2/3rds of the match gone, a rom player decided to cloak and watch not unlike what you mentioned. I fought to the end with honor. If I could have raided his/your ship and murdered you on your bridge I would have. I may not have the best gear, or greatest skill, but my honor is intact because I will never quit on my allies.
In that case, you can just be mad.

One minute left on the clock, everyone was dead except for me, and the entire wave is still up? Yeah, not wasting my time just to see the TOS Connie bum rush the fleet and die again. If you want to keep shooting things when you're all on your own with no chance of winning, go for it. I won't be though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fourxgamer View Post
I do expect him to die trying, not hiding in a corner. Tell me they wouldn't take your command away from you if you pulled that as a fed, or executed you as a klingon.
Nope, they wouldn't have done anything. One ship vs. a whole fleet is not something either side would have expected at all. The Feds command would have had the ship fall back. Klingons are warriors, but they aren't stupid. They don't just rush into suicide scenarios. There is no honor in rushing to your death like a fool.

-Lantesh
Since Feb. 2009

It's time for STO to get a complete UI overhaul.

Last edited by lan451; 06-14-2013 at 05:13 PM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 24
06-14-2013, 05:14 PM
Anyone who warps out on the last bunch should automatically warp into the heart of a sun

basically fleet alert can be beaten by a medium level team (lt coms and above)
or a single VA and any four other ships
it just needs communication and cooperation
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,809
# 25
06-14-2013, 05:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombiedeadheaded View Post
Perhaps the fool is the one who doesn't know the 5km rule was removed long ago.
Funny, you stay away and it NEVER cloaks.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,418
# 26
06-14-2013, 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
its not a level 50 mission

a Single level 50 can almost solo it
its basically a captain level op but it should be open to all Lower ranks

Fleet alerts were ALWAYS open to lower ranks (and if anyone is being gated out it should be those of us past level 40)

the common mistake that this stuff is "end game" is just that a mistake

when fleet alerts BEGAN I ran my first one at level 13
I get the feeling a lot of people, including you, aren't actually aware of the mission being discussed. The mission in question is a level 50 mission, the enemies in it are all level 50. It's also IMPOSSIBLE for a single level 50 Captain to solo this mission, so stop spouting rubbish please.

For one, there are far too many enemies for one ship to take on without multiple re-spawns (when the counter runs down for the next wave, they appear whether you've taken care of the previous wave or not). Secondly, the mission is on a timer which means you would run out of time long before completion even if you did decide to keep re-spawning and try soloing it.

Also, why the heck would they stop level 50 Captains from earning fleet marks by fighting against level 50 enemies? That would make no sense at all.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since Beta.
Problem with your power tray? Try this, it worked for several of my characters.
Click for Stats

Last edited by khamseenair; 06-14-2013 at 06:23 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 994
# 27
06-14-2013, 11:48 PM
For all those claiming this is somehow a "Captain" level mission, that's just demonstrably false. I ran it just now, and actually looked at my target info at the top of the screen. The level difference on the ships I checked was 0-2. Since I was level 50, that means they were 48-50. This is an endgame, admiral level mission. It's Normal difficulty, not Elite, but it is certainly Level 50.

Now, I happened to also run ACT while I did this. This turns out to be fortuitous because I got a mixed level group. It was me, two other VAs, a RA Lower, and a Lt. Cdr. I was also on my Romulan, who has mediocre gear as of yet. We finished with just under a minute left on the siege group. Here are our damage numbers:

1. VA 1 - 2,548,623
2. VA 2 - 2,183,535
3. My Romulan - 1,984,362
4. RA-L - 409,337
5. Lt. Cdr - 234,805

And our best hits:

1. VA 1 - 44,008 (Plasma Energy Bolt)
2. My Romulan - 31,652 (Tric Mine)
3. VA 2 - 30,362 (Hargh'Peng)
4. Lt. Cdr - 4,017 (Plasma Torp)
5. RA-L - 3,064 (Photon Torp)

Everybody was active the whole time, nobody was AFK. I was impressed with the Lt. Cdr, he only died once. The RA also died once. None of the VAs died. Look at the dropoff in damage just from the VAs to the RA. He did 1/5 the damage that I did. Now, my damage numbers in PvE tend to be high compared to a typical PUG, even on my Romulan. Let's make an assumption that our RA here was doing 1/3 the damage of a typical PUG VA (and that's being generous). The Lt. Cdr did half of what the RA did.

Obviously, the RA could very well have done better. The only thing an RA lacks that a VA has is another Captain power, access to Mk. XI-XII weapons and gear, and VA C-Store consoles. Given the low overall damage and extremely low best hit, I'm going to assume he's a brand new player and doesn't know how to get the most out of his ship yet. An decent player at RA level could've managed, let's say, around 1-1.5 mil. A captain even less.

Considering the time limits, having anybody coming in at Captain or below constitutes a severe DPS penalty. Since this mission is TIMED, DPS reigns king here even more than other PvE content (and that's saying something in this game). In fact, we probably would've lost the Siege round had all three VAs not been established players doing a lot of damage. The notion that a single VA can solo this given the time limit is ludicrous. We could've probably removed the RA and Lt. Cdr and just done this with us 3 VAs, but it would've been tight.

So, the way the situation is now is not fair. It's not fair to people coming into a VA match with team mates who are incapable of contributing significantly to the mission. It's also not fair to those lower level players who will spend the entire time feeling useless and exploding. All it needs is a level gate on the public queue. This is the same mechanism that exists and works on Fleet Actions and PvP. There's no reason it shouldn't be in place here.

If you want to run mixed level with your fleet mates and friends, you very well can. Private matches have always been able to do this. By all means, have fun challenging yourselves in whatever way you wish.

We have a lot of new players coming in. They don't know how to set their ships up well, they aren't good pilots yet, and they don't understand why they have angry VAs screaming at them in team chat. I'd like to see them stick around and become good players. We just need to break up the public queue so it's fair and fun for everybody, and nobody needs to have a bad time.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 28
06-15-2013, 04:02 AM
Quote:
I get the feeling a lot of people, including you, aren't actually aware of the mission being discussed. The mission in question is a level 50 mission, the enemies in it are all level 50. It's also IMPOSSIBLE for a single level 50 Captain to solo this mission, so stop spouting rubbish please.

fleet alert is available from level 5 for federation (level 22 for klingons for some warped reason)
its a VERY easy mission for a team working together
if you can't complete this as a level 30 captain try turning on team chat

I said "almost" solo
you can get as far as wave 4 all by yourself

Quote:
For one, there are far too many enemies for one ship to take on without multiple re-spawns (when the counter runs down for the next wave, they appear whether you've taken care of the previous wave or not).
not everyone flys an escort
The average cruiser has 3- 5 times your survivability
Some cloaked ships can complete a wave without even being hit
Quote:
Secondly, the mission is on a timer which means you would run out of time long before completion even if you did decide to keep re-spawning and try soloing it.
Call for back up
this is what operational assets are for

Quote:
Also, why the heck would they stop level 50 Captains from earning fleet marks by fighting against level 50 enemies? That would make no sense at all.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since Beta.
level 50's should be doing real level 50 content (colony invasion)

Quote:
My fleet means something to me, it is a home. But because it has less than 25 members and I don't want to be a nameless face among 500, I'll never reap the rewards of an upgraded starbase. Not cool.
can get 50 marks doing colony invasion a LOT easier and no lower ranks to get in your way

Quote:
For all those claiming this is somehow a "Captain" level mission, that's just demonstrably false. I ran it just now, and actually looked at my target info at the top of the screen. The level difference on the ships I checked was 0-2. Since I was level 50, that means they were 48-50. This is an endgame, admiral level mission. It's Normal difficulty, not Elite, but it is certainly Level 50.
no it was raised to that because of moaning VA's
its a low level mission
the enemies always spawn in the same place at the same time in the same formation
A single large warship with torp spread 3 Bfaw and a singularity can swipe and wipe 50% of a wave in a single volley
that makes this a captain level mission

I have seen this mission beaten by a team of three captains in 6 and a half minutes
(admittedly on orions)

Quote:
Now, I happened to also run ACT while I did this. This turns out to be fortuitous because I got a mixed level group. It was me, two other VAs, a RA Lower, and a Lt. Cdr. I was also on my Romulan, who has mediocre gear as of yet. We finished with just under a minute left on the siege group. Here are our damage numbers:

1. VA 1 - 2,548,623
2. VA 2 - 2,183,535
3. My Romulan - 1,984,362
4. RA-L - 409,337
5. Lt. Cdr - 234,805

And our best hits:

1. VA 1 - 44,008 (Plasma Energy Bolt)
2. My Romulan - 31,652 (Tric Mine)
3. VA 2 - 30,362 (Hargh'Peng)
4. Lt. Cdr - 4,017 (Plasma Torp)
5. RA-L - 3,064 (Photon Torp)
third party software may or may not be reliable
sounds to me however as if you have the wrong weapons /powers

Most of those are single target weapons
you need spreads and patterns

Quote:
Everybody was active the whole time, nobody was AFK. I was impressed with the Lt. Cdr, he only died once. The RA also died once. None of the VAs died. Look at the dropoff in damage just from the VAs to the RA. He did 1/5 the damage that I did. Now, my damage numbers in PvE tend to be high compared to a typical PUG, even on my Romulan. Let's make an assumption that our RA here was doing 1/3 the damage of a typical PUG VA (and that's being generous). The Lt. Cdr did half of what the RA did.
lets assume they were average skill level
had they had better boff powers and weapons the time would have been shorter
Quote:
Obviously, the RA could very well have done better. The only thing an RA lacks that a VA has is another Captain power, access to Mk. XI-XII weapons and gear, and VA C-Store consoles. Given the low overall damage and extremely low best hit, I'm going to assume he's a brand new player and doesn't know how to get the most out of his ship yet. An decent player at RA level could've managed, let's say, around 1-1.5 mil. A captain even less
.

You were using one hit weapons
tri mines for example are ONE mine
a similar mk transphasic with a pattern power can be 8 (or about 3 times the damage)


Quote:
Considering the time limits, having anybody coming in at Captain or below constitutes a severe DPS penalty.
dps parsing needs to be banned its causing people to make false assessments

Quote:
Since this mission is TIMED, DPS reigns king here even more than other PvE content (and that's saying something in this game). In fact, we probably would've lost the Siege round had all three VAs not been established players doing a lot of damage. The notion that a single VA can solo this given the time limit is ludicrous. We could've probably removed the RA and Lt. Cdr and just done this with us 3 VAs, but it would've been tight.
usually in the seige mode two or more VA's WARP OUT
leaving the rest to finish
they almost always fail purely because of this


Quote:
So, the way the situation is now is not fair. It's not fair to people coming into a VA match with team mates who are incapable of contributing significantly to the mission. It's also not fair to those lower level players who will spend the entire time feeling useless and exploding. All it needs is a level gate on the public queue. This is the same mechanism that exists and works on Fleet Actions and PvP. There's no reason it shouldn't be in place here.

yes levels 40 and under ONLY

Quote:
If you want to run mixed level with your fleet mates and friends, you very well can. Private matches have always been able to do this. By all means, have fun challenging yourselves in whatever way you wish.
Fleet alert really should be just Fleets


Quote:
We have a lot of new players coming in. They don't know how to set their ships up well, they aren't good pilots yet, and they don't understand why they have angry VAs screaming at them in team chat
yes because the VA's are often wrong

Some gems
"Don't get within 5km of the named ship it will cloak" (while fighting tholians)
"anyone not on DHC's should not be here"
"use the 10% rule" (in a fleet alert??????????)
"Get a proper ship NOOBS " (from a guy in a bug ship)
not to forget "Rainbow loser"

Quote:
. I'd like to see them stick around and become good players. We just need to break up the public queue so it's fair and fun for everybody, and nobody needs to have a bad time.
we need to make it clear to the VA's that a fleet team is 1 VA and 4 lower ranking ships
and that its the Va's job to GUIDE and protect
not to boss his team about

you are not kirk
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,146
# 29
06-15-2013, 04:07 AM
just wanted to add...the siege wave gives 5 marks...and takes the longest and once down starts the lock out from this event...

so it is actually smartest to warp out without engaging the siege grp and just join the queue again to earn another 40+ marks with the 4 waves over and over and over again.

thats not griefing the rest of the grp, thats efficent farming of fleet marks.

also: this event should really be level gated


consider this too: actually finishing this event grants only 5 FM more than "not finishing it" and if you see the mission goes down the drain...warp out and join the queue again.
Go pro or go home

Last edited by baudl; 06-15-2013 at 04:13 AM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 30
06-15-2013, 04:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baudl View Post
just wanted to add...the siege wave gives 5 marks...and takes the longest and once down starts the lock out from this event...

so it is actually smartest to warp out without engaging the siege grp and just join the queue again to earn another 40+ marks with the 4 waves over and over and over again.

thats not griefing the rest of the grp, thats efficent farming of fleet marks.

also: this event should really be level gated


consider this too: actually finishing this event grants only 5 FM more than "not finishing it" and if you see the mission goes down the drain...warp out and join the queue again.
and thats why no marks should be awarded at all until the event ends and the lock out should apply from warp in not warp out
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