Republic Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,771
# 71
06-22-2013, 03:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by khayuung View Post
The FHEC has a lower shield mod than the JHAS, and in this game, shields are everything. Therefore, even with the same console types slotted, the JHAS would survive longer because 1% more shield hp and regen amplified by power level outdoes whatever you can squeeze out from that extra HP with your captain's SIF stat.
EptS 3 and RSP 1 do waaaay more for shield tanking than a minuscule shield mod increase.
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 658
# 72
06-22-2013, 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
How in the world anyone can die in a ship that can keep EPtS !!3!! active the vast majority of the time with doffs along with an EPtE and/or EPtA while still packing two TTs, an HE, and the options of a PH/TSS or RSP/Aux2Strut when fighting Tholians in Azure Nebula, aka the bore you to death absolutely no actual threat NPCs just blows my mind.
He admitted on pages 2 and 3 that he wasn't actually doing anything to defend himself, he thought he should be able to survive just sitting stationary with no abilities active. Page 4 is also memorable, and then on page 5 people started trying to help fix his disaster of a build and he vanished. It's almost worth reading the whole thing just for the lulz.

Last edited by jadensecura; 06-22-2013 at 10:35 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,268
# 73
06-22-2013, 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reyan01 View Post
And that's a real pity, because the canon version, seen in various episodes of DS9, was really nothing very special at all.

In fact, I would argue that it was so 'average' that one had to kamikazee the USS Odyssey to destroy it during Starfleet's initial encounter.
Well, actually, the things were pretty effective the first time the Federation ever engages them. . .perhaps it was numbers, I dunno. The Federation wasn't able to do a whole lot against them, despite their best efforts. Then, suddenly, the Defiant is on the scene and it's a friggin supership that's shredding just about everything with 1-2 volleys from it's uber-strong weapons. Then, of course, as the Dominion War went on the rest of the Federation ships apparently became able to shred Attack Ships with 1-2 hits from their phaser banks.

They removed all shields from combat and turned everything into an explosion-fest to make things look more epic. Trying to judge what's actually 'powerful' and 'effective' from the TV shows is pretty pointless.

EDIT: Also, they kamikazee'd the Galaxy class ship in order to keep it from escaping back through the wormhole. It was the quickest way to do it. The Galaxy-class ship was losing the fight quickly, and wasn't able to make headway against the Attack Ships.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 272
# 74
06-23-2013, 04:53 PM
The first time the Federation faced Jem'Hadar Attack Ships - their shields were useless against them. Without modifications to Federation shields - which weren't made until sometime around Starship Down - Federation ships couldn't block phased polarons anywhere in their spectrum. Captain Keogh even says that shields are useless against them, and orders shield power transferred to weapons.

Could Odyssey have survived if it would have kept her shields up to actually blunt the kamikaze attack? Who knows, but the case may be, in the first encounter - even during the Defiant's first encounter with the Jem'Hadar, shields were pretty much useless.

Sometime after - Starfleet learned to adapt their shields to polaron weapons and the bugship went from absolutely deadly to mostly annoying. /shrug.

As to the point of this thread - you really, REALLY can't fly a Jem Attacker and an Armitage the same way. It's like comparing the Excelsior with the standard assault cruiser. They're both cruisers, but you play them very differently.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,295
# 75
06-24-2013, 03:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by timezarg View Post
Well, actually, the things were pretty effective the first time the Federation ever engages them. . .perhaps it was numbers, I dunno. The Federation wasn't able to do a whole lot against them, despite their best efforts. Then, suddenly, the Defiant is on the scene and it's a friggin supership that's shredding just about everything with 1-2 volleys from it's uber-strong weapons. Then, of course, as the Dominion War went on the rest of the Federation ships apparently became able to shred Attack Ships with 1-2 hits from their phaser banks.

They removed all shields from combat and turned everything into an explosion-fest to make things look more epic. Trying to judge what's actually 'powerful' and 'effective' from the TV shows is pretty pointless.

EDIT: Also, they kamikazee'd the Galaxy class ship in order to keep it from escaping back through the wormhole. It was the quickest way to do it. The Galaxy-class ship was losing the fight quickly, and wasn't able to make headway against the Attack Ships.
It wasn't 'loosing the fight quickly' - she'd hung in there for quite a while.

And the fact that they even HAD to kamikazee the Odyssey at all suggests that their beams alone were NOT enough to do the job.

STAR TREK BATTLES - HIGH DPS PLAYERS NEED NOT APPY
Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 310
# 76
06-24-2013, 05:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keeny75 View Post
Not on paper. On paper both ships have the same dps rating.
Besides my test neither ship was firing just taking damage and the armitage was the first to fall.

If your looking at the specs on paper and decide to buy the ships because of those stats then the ship should be true to those stats.
You know that "on paper" the bug ship has better shields, right? Between the two you are probably trading ~100 shields for ~800 hull.

Shields > Hull.

Also, I have to say, your test sounds very stupid and subjective, and if you're getting blown up in Azure that is totally your own fault, in any ship.
Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 310
# 77
06-24-2013, 05:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeybacon90 View Post
EptS 3 and RSP 1 do waaaay more for shield tanking than a minuscule shield mod increase.
You realize the OP said he was literally sitting there doing nothing, though.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 51
# 78
06-25-2013, 01:50 AM
The Armitage is quite an adversary when used proper. It`s more a hit and run ship so sitting still is killing as the OP noticed. For me the best use of the Armitage is with the scorpion fighters. Go in with blazing (incl. quad phaser front and Cannon: Scatter Volley) cannons, use scramble sensors, fire the the torps in spread and with the Console - Universal - Torpedo Point Defense System and fire phasers from the Console - Point Defense System, pass by and kill reaming ships with a breen cluster torp. Disable the tractors and by the team your ready and underway to the next target, the cooldown is done. For me it works admirably and never got killed in Azure.
Captain of the federation starship U.S.S. Iridium.

In the end.... we`re all Ferengi!

Last edited by sparcehv; 06-25-2013 at 06:30 AM. Reason: Wrong info
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,425
# 79
06-25-2013, 05:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparcehv View Post
The Armitage is quite an adversary when used proper. It`s more a hit and run ship so sitting still is killing as the OP noticed. For me the best use of the Armitage is with the scorpion fighters. Go in with blazing (incl. quad phaser front and Cannon: Scatter Volley) cannons, use scramble sensors and gravity well to "glue" the Tholians together, fire the the torps in spread and with the Console - Universal - Torpedo Point Defense System and fire phasers from the Console - Point Defense System, pass by and kill reaming ships with a breen cluster torp. Disable the tractors and by the team your ready and underway to the next target, the cooldown is done. For me it works admirably and never got killed in Azure.
Gravity Well 1 is a Lt.Com ability, how do you get Gravity Well on the Armitage?
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,785
# 80
06-25-2013, 06:08 AM
In canon the bug ship is the dominion version of the Miranda. The odyssey would have escaped if it weren't for the kamikaze run and all that without the use of its shields. If it's shields were effective then the battle would have gone very differently.
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