Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,472
# 11
06-27-2013, 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naevius View Post
To quote Spock: The needs of the money outweigh the needs of the pew. (I think I got that right...).
Laughed so hard at this! Very true.

Quote:
Cryptic should probably give an incentive to play PvP by introducing a PvP rep system (though I think it should mainly unlock costly vanity items like costumes, ship hull patterns, medals, etc.) which rewards its respective marks based on a kill-death-ratio/damage dealt/heals applied formula to make people learn the game mechanics and to prevent them from simply afk-farming marks.
Depends on the kind of reward system, and how things are rewarded. I like the idea of unlocking vanity items, as opposed to a leaderboard system that other people have been pushing for.

I suggest, when a player first gets the mission to talk to Calhoun and Mazza at K-7, the game allows the player to choose what kind of captain they wish to be. "Do you want to gain marks through damage dealing, survivability, team healing, CC, etc?" You get a choice on what you want to gain marks on. Then, as you PvP, you can gain those marks based on how many points of team healing you do.

And in order to push the escorts back down, Cryptic could balance the mark achievement by slanting it in favour of roles that are not pure damage dealer. (ex. damage dealers get 1 mark per 100,000 points of damage dealt. healers would get 1 mark per 80,000 points of healing.) This would help balance out the problems associated with too many damage dealers, and encourage people to try a different style or role in PvP.

stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 12
06-27-2013, 08:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by verusisrael View Post
If they could just balance the game right and give us possibly some form of ranking system so matches could be more evenly matched and more fun maybe they would make more money off of the expanding base of players.

Yep, good point.


Quote:
Originally Posted by verusisrael View Post
IDK...call me crazy, but ignoring the pvp community to cater to the whims of pve'rs will hasen the demise of my beloved game.
Again, true.

They've painted themselves into a bizarre corner, and the fault lays squarely at their doorstep.

They have taken the MMO [ gear progress > raid/endgame progress > repeat with new tier] progression model and warped it into something that makes no sense.

They sell us new powers and gear or make us grind stores to buy it in, usually more powerful or unbalanced compared to most of what was released before...

...but they do not add new, harder content for that gear progression to feed off of.


If they did, I could actually have a bit more forgiveness for the constant power creep.

Instead this power creep is just poisoning their own well, making already easy-breezy content even easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by verusisrael View Post
If you look at the numbers and say: we should ignore pvp because no one does it, you shouldn't be surprised to see dwindling sales because you are ignoring the demographic who have proven (as evidence in other games) that they will pay your bills.
That's what they tell themselves.

That's what they tell us.

Those are the words they say.

However their other words say a lot more.

They don't PvP, they don't like PvP and part of me gets the feeling that some of them really don't like PvPers.*

I have no proof of that, other than some off hand comments from interviews, but its still my opinion.



I'm not sure why they continually allow this segment of their market to languish and deteriorate, one that has been proven repeatedly to spend and remain engaged at an intense level.





*I do admit readily that the PvP segment often contains a lot of rancor but at the same time a good portion of that rancor comes from 3 years of stagnation, neglect, "unfun" game mechanics allowed to run rampant and an unrelenting barrage of constant metagame shifts and a degradation of virtual equity.


Last edited by ussultimatum; 06-27-2013 at 08:34 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,519
# 13
06-27-2013, 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
...but they do not add new, harder content for that gear progression to feed off of.
That's kind of what led to my thoughts earlier about who the game this game is intended for...

Though I'm not a fan of the "gear check" carrot on a stick progression, there's still a logic there, eh?

Gear A to do Content B, Content B rewards Gear B so you can do Content C, Content C rewards Gear C so you can do Content D, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...

STO on the other hand, well - we're on what, Gear L and still on Content A? There's been additional Content A added, sure...but no Content B.

Rather than adding Content B, they add Grindsinks. You keep doing Content A, so you can Grind stuff for Grinds ABC. It gets easier and easier to do Content A, so there are Timegates on the Grinds. Even then, certain of the Grinds are still done within a month - wham, bam, hrmmm.

There's the big Grind of a Starbase - but it was somewhat out of reach of many - so introduce Grind K to make it easier for smaller Fleets to do that Grind.

They're still doing Content A over and over and over and over and over though.

But again, they've spoken about S9-S10 being about endgame improvements...including PvP...so it's a case of waiting and seeing, eh?

Meanwhile, Grind R(isa) starts today...
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 293
# 14
06-27-2013, 08:56 AM
I always thought it was funny that, say for instance, you grind borg stfs to get gear better suited to grind borg stfs, so much so that once u get the gear made for grinding stfs you've grinded so many stfs you can go another 6 months without actually playing one of those stfs with the gear you've grinded the stfs to get to make the stfs easier to grind to get the gear made for grinding the stfs you've grinded to..

yea.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 15
06-27-2013, 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
That's kind of what led to my thoughts earlier about who the game this game is intended for...

Though I'm not a fan of the "gear check" carrot on a stick progression, there's still a logic there, eh?
Agreed.

I don't prefer that kind of system necessarily, but as you say it does at least have some kind of a logic to it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Gear A to do Content B, Content B rewards Gear B so you can do Content C, Content C rewards Gear C so you can do Content D, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...

STO on the other hand, well - we're on what, Gear L and still on Content A? There's been additional Content A added, sure...but no Content B.
Again, agree completely.

I understand part of that is driven to "cast a wider net" as Captain Gecko has put it (just like action movies that don't require much translation to export), but what I don't understand is why they willingly let the smaller, more dedicated, "high-engagement" player segments wither on the vine?

Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,176
# 16
06-27-2013, 11:41 AM
with how the scim looks to be turning out, they have passed a new screw pvp, we want this overpowered so we will make the most money, and there are no other concerns, threshold.

please raise your hand if your a pvper that was allowed to test it. those that have leaked pictures of the things stats and build, surly in violation of thier nondisclosure agreement, not only have laughably bad builds but arent even trust worthy. you would have found a lot more trustworthy, talented and impartial folks here, among pvpers.


also their ideas of harder content for this new power creep gear is the elatchi and tholians. not harder, just trolls. its miserably to fight them, not because they are harder and more player ship like, but because they are disabling your subsystems, spam subspace jump, have a bordering party no counter works against, and have their damn web walls and webs that some times you cant even target the nodes to get out of. they are just a pain in the ass, they are not more like player ships, and thus fun to fight. they still have huge hitpoints, still have 2 or 3 weapons instead of 6 to 8, still have huge damage modifiers with those few weapons, still barely use any station power other then thier troll powers, and you fight a ton at once, which is also wrong. you should not engage fleets of ships alone. these new npc races are not what we have been asking for when we say we want a challenge.

they should give npc ships tier levels and a full station setup with that tier, more weapons slots, and ability up time thats the same as a player that puts 9 points into the skill. doing a mission were you destroy 10 or 20 ships is silly. a good fight vs 2 or 3 ships, spaced out in a mission that are an approximate match for your player ship in staion powers, weapons, and hitpoints would make pve actually fun. someone paying attention might learn how to set up a ship based on what they see the npc do too.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,462
# 17
06-27-2013, 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
they should give npc ships tier levels and a full station setup with that tier, more weapons slots, and ability up time thats the same as a player that puts 9 points into the skill. doing a mission were you destroy 10 or 20 ships is silly. a good fight vs 2 or 3 ships, spaced out in a mission that are an approximate match for your player ship in staion powers, weapons, and hitpoints would make pve actually fun. someone paying attention might learn how to set up a ship based on what they see the npc do too.
I'd love to see this. Even if only on Elite mode. Perhaps this game should be modified so that after you've completed a mission the next time you start it the difficulty gets automatically set on harder then the next time Elite. Make people rise to the challenge. They'll seek out help, and most importantly, be willing to change their builds to improve. If they're builds and understanding of the game mechanics improve they wouldn't be lost in PvP. If they're not lost then they might do more of it.

Unfortunately every time a good difficult mission comes out all we get cries to nerf it and the Devs do it. Maybe we should gradually increase difficulty not decrease it.

Last edited by edalgo; 06-27-2013 at 12:09 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,519
# 18
06-27-2013, 12:11 PM
I actually thought the Elachi were a move in the right direction. I never got the complaints the about the various space missions and them. Their difficulty was at least approaching casual rather than super casual...before they were nerfed (repeatedly, mind you - meh).

It wasn't the leg bouncing, trance-like state in PvP where fingers are flying almost of their own accord...but it required more than periodically tapping the spacebar with a pinkytoe while flipping channels trying to find something on TV.

My best LoR memory was during the beta when I was half-asleep and ran the Rhi mission in a shuttle on another toon I was leveling. But wait, the Rhi mission is a shuttle mission. No, the part in orbit before you drop down to the atmosphere. Yep, fighting Monbosh in a shuttle. Was good fun.

Yeah, I never got the complaints about the Elachi in space. Even offered that in my feedback, that I hoped it was a hint of things to come and there might be an AI overhaul of other NPCs in the game so that it was more than just a monster farm.

Still say Cryptic needs to adjust their difficulty levels:

Casual
Normal
Advanced
Elite
Armageddon

That each level should reward appropriately...or perhaps offer Accolades/Titles/Vanity stuff to reflect the level of difficulty that has been completed.

As is, Normal is far from Normal. Elite is the closest thing approaching Normal...and...it's at the lower end of the spectrum.

But yeah, I was disappointed how much Cryptic ended up nerfing the Elachi (even repeatedly)...in space that is, lol - ground on the other hand, either they were running through walls and hiding or doing their own form of invisitorp instadeaths. Ground needed some bugfixing (not nerfing - just fixing).
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,519
# 19
06-27-2013, 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by edalgo View Post
Make people rise to the challenge. They'll seek out help, and most importantly, be willing to change their builds to improve.
Unfortunately, that's not quite how it works out. With Devil's Choice, folks offered all sorts of advice to folks that were having issues with it in numerous threads. They didn't care. They didn't want to rise to the challenge. They didn't want any challenge. They didn't want any help, didn't want to change anything they were doing, didn't want to improve, etc, etc, etc...

...yes, those discussions turned me against a large portion of STO's playerbase. So many posts edited before I posted or moments after, knowing that I'd get those pesky messages from mods otherwise.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,462
# 20
06-27-2013, 12:21 PM
I believe they don't rise to the challenge bc they don't have to. Make the difficulty increase with repeated missions, how many active days you've played and don't give in to whining for nerfs bc they don't want to use a tac team.

Last edited by edalgo; 06-27-2013 at 12:30 PM.
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