Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 951
# 21
06-26-2013, 03:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borgresearcher View Post
that happens 10% of the times, not everyone is sci, and not every scis use ss and jam, you will find a use to et and st only if you are a healer, for the instant heal only, and i still find tt a better shield "heal" to give than st in a premade
If the person being attacked doesn't have TT, then sure, I'd agree it'd be better to give him TT, unless of course his shields are depleted. Even though ST3 can give an amazing spike heal, it's actually not that useful just by itself if the other team has good DPS. However, if you give someone TSS, then after their sheilds are down a bit, stack a ST on top of it they're good to go.

Quote:
the et subsystem repair is too situational, you might use 2 copies and still get caught without an et ready
That's why you wouldn't want to use ET as your primary hull heal. Use Aux2SIF or HE, then if they still need hull ET. Or if the other team is using lots of direct hull damage then spamming ET3 (with 2 CD doffs) in combination with the other hull heals would be a good idea.

Quote:
that doesnt happen with tt, everyone does damage so tt fits any situation, it tanks, it clears, it boosts dmg, and it can avoid alphas
In no way am I denying the usefulness of TT. It's the must-have ability for tac pilots. I just don't think removing the shared cooldown between TT, ST, and ET would in any way affect this, and would only do more harm in other areas. Tac escorts are still going to have 2-3 ensign tac slots and they're going to fill 2 of them with TT. Removing the shared cooldown will not only make ET or ST more useful to tacs, but it will make TT more useful to Sci's/Engie's, which I think goes against the original concept behind this thread.
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@DevolvedOne
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 951
# 22
06-26-2013, 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by magniacapra View Post
@skurf

My point is the cleansing powers =~ resist bonuses in terms of opportunity cost, having to then compete with the strongest tanking ability in the game top makes them worthless.
Are you saying ET and ST are worthless? It seems like you are only taking into consideration the tac escort point of view. ET and ST are essentially worthless on a tac escort, I can agree to that, but they are extremely worthwhile on a sci/eng science ship, cruiser or carrier. Not everything should be made so readily accessible for tac escorts. Let them do their job and let the sci's do their's.

Quote:
If we change the mechanics so that Eng Team shares global cooldown with auxtosif and he, whilst sci team shares with tss, extends and maybe epts instead of tt's, then we have a situation where people have to use between high resists (a problem this game is having I've heard) and heal dot or heal alpha and anti-debuf as opposed to... do I choose to depend on team mates having split second reflexes and tt not on cooldown so I can survive the alpha of a single random competent tac captain..... or do I choose not to have a stupid build.
People would drop like flies if you put all the hull heals on a combined CD and then all the shield heals on a shared CD as well. You would essentially eliminate the healer role in this game because they would no longer be able to "save" people by stacking heals since after using 1 hull heal or 1 shield heal, all the other respective heals would be on cooldown.

At this point you'd be limiting the usefulness of both sci debuffers (their debuffs could be quickly cleansed due to no shared cd between the team cleansing abilities) AND sci/eng. healers (because of shared cd's on multiple shield/hull heals that you propose).
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@DevolvedOne

Last edited by skurf; 06-26-2013 at 03:51 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 361
# 23
06-26-2013, 03:31 PM
i support a tactical team nerf or a engineering/science team boost only
it's not the ship or the build, it's the atitude
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 650
# 24
06-26-2013, 03:42 PM
It would be more honest to swap ET and Aux2Sif abilities, Aux2Sif is more like sci tm and tac tm. A pure spike hull heal with nothing else is so situational that it would be enough to just let ET not share a cooldown with anything.

TT and ST are comparable to ET in power for their purpose, but not applicability. Two (TT/ST) are sustainment or cleanse powers, one (ET) is a premortem heal. There is no reason to pop ET preemptively therefor the opportunity cost is greater to lose TT or ST for ET. It is good, but here is the key: ET is second rate to TT and ST in use, if you have to choose ET is not a choice with all the other hull heals out there and greater power level perks of new equipment. Buffing it wouldn't really help i dont think because TT is just that useful. The shared cooldown for the teams needs to be eliminated or less than 5 seconds.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 361
# 25
06-26-2013, 03:46 PM
st is only a weak shied heal, the only point it has is to clean jam sensors and subnuke cd debuff, you can handle ss easely, and it only lasts 5 seconds, dont compare st to tt
it's not the ship or the build, it's the atitude
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,841
# 26
06-26-2013, 05:07 PM
Infinite no... In my pvp experience and watching other people play, most escort captains will complain about being sub nuked. On my build, sub nuke is the primary reason why my fleet patrol will always quickly explode in a fiery death. This change would effectively grant me pseudo god mode without any support . Unless you have the burst damage to overwhelm my resists, ur outta luck buddy. The boff layout on my favorite fleet patrol is good enough to carry all three team abilities too and still be able to run 2x APO/2xeptx/HE.

And the captains lucky enough to have scored a bug, well, their tankyness will become even crazier than it was before.
Reality is WAR
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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 650
# 27
06-26-2013, 06:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borgresearcher View Post
st is only a weak shied heal, the only point it has is to clean jam sensors and subnuke cd debuff, you can handle ss easely, and it only lasts 5 seconds, dont compare st to tt
I consider the SNB cleanse the primary use for ST and it is often called for in PvP. I agree that TT is above the ST because the constant shield redist, but if you could only pick two, which two would you always pick in all honesty. The fact that ET is omittable shows it is not on par with the other two, HE and Aux2Sif can make up for it and don't cause ST or TT to cooldown.

ET is replaceable, ST and TT are not covered by anything else for their primary functions.
Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 522
# 28
06-27-2013, 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skurf View Post
Are you saying ET and ST are worthless? It seems like you are only taking into consideration the tac escort point of view.
No, quite the opposite infant. The fact of the matter is top level players don't argue about having a tac team on their build or not. The real argument is how many or weather it's on global cooldown or not. When measured against something that effectively quadruples your shield hp and regen, the fact of the matter is that without team support you'll seldom want to use anything that global cooldowns with tt because your stupidly weak without it.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 522
# 29
07-24-2013, 03:11 AM
Tactical team is basically the most important skill in the game, and every ship should have at least one copy for pvp.

With shared cooldowns across the other team abilities, they in turn become significantly less viable.

Without shared cooldowns sci and engineering teams, (especially on cruisers with inferior ensign engineering options!) have greater build diversity.


Tac escorts will benifit, but significantly less than sci or cruiser ships, as they will often trade one heal for another, often with lower resists and heal over time.

A sci or eng heal boat build would then be significantly more effective and offer more counters to the myriad of crap pilots face in the modern game.
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,212
# 30
07-24-2013, 03:35 AM
I'd just wish that they make a new tactical power called "Shield redistribution" which gets what tactical team does in terms of redistribution, while leaving all other benefits of tactical team with tactical team.

Suddenly, we'd have APB and APD be sort of useful.


Alternatively, watching various famous starship battles from the shows: Eliminate Shield Redistribution altogether, but quadruple the amount of shield hit points and shield healing from the varous abilities per facing (resulting in similar survivability on one facing as now). The only "shield redistribution" we see on the TV shows is the redistribution of energy to shield facings, which in STO, merely change regeneration rate and shield damage resistance.
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Last edited by sophlogimo; 07-25-2013 at 01:19 AM.
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