Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,158
# 31
07-02-2013, 11:42 AM
It would never work. Firstly, it would mean actual teams would pretty much never find an opponent if they were barred from entry.

This would result in them queuing singly and only accepting when their entire team has a pop, which would in turn greatly annoy people who get a match, only to find that the match fails on account of lack of players because insufficient people accepted the pop.

On top of that, there's multiple levels of "premadeness", from "random people who are bored and decide to form a team of people who they think are semi-competent so they don't have to put up with smacktards", to "casual friends who always play together", to "serious teams that actually know what they're doing as a team and drill specifically for whoopass". At what point do such groups become "premades"? Do you want to stick a casual friendly group up against a team of professional asswhuppers every time? Because that's what happens with your "premade" queue. This is, of course, no better than the present situation, as it will quickly result in the "solution" as I previously mentioned, which will then proceed to annoy everyone else.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,044
# 32
07-02-2013, 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by v1ctor1st View Post
The problem with PVP (and i PVP sometimes, im just average) is there is no REAL way of "learning" how to PVP when the premade team yer facing up against is 100 time more organised and pick out their targets.
There's an old martial arts movie that I like, Shaolin vs. Lama - which kind of sums up this particular issue during one of the scenes. The hero, trying to learn from the grandmaster tells his sidekick something along the lines of "I got beat so bad, I only learned one style..."

It can definitely be inefficient to try to learn/to improve, while facing a premade intent upon pugstomping...

Willard the Rat, Klingon Science Officer

Swordsman Tip: You are your own biggest hurdle to becoming a better player.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,541
# 33
07-02-2013, 11:56 AM
I will say there are some days that I miss the older seasons. Despite some of the bugs, and mistakes Cryptic has made over the years, those days felt the most fun and the most active when pvp was concerned..

Now everyone can cloak if they are a romulan, which brings in new tactics and more need for Science officers in Science based ships. Damage comes in faster and harder. Tactics are trickier to figure out in some ways. While others are more obvious and annoying to die to. Team play is still "OP" but rightfully so. So many times when I die in a PVP area like Ker'rat, Cap and hold, or an Arena, and look around after I died to see 4 other ships near by and just go "Yep.. nothing I could have done" when everything was on cool down. And it really was just that type of situation. Which don't make me feel bad. Makes me feel good that they had either good tactics, or were just able to out play me. Drives me to get better, work on builds, ask people for help, theory craft with Fleet mates, and just all and all still enjoy the PVP we have in STO despite it's 3+ Years of flaws and lack of attention.

So GG to the good guys, thanks for the game to the new players, and better luck next time to the guys who died to me. We all have to start some where, even if it's getting blown up by a decloaking alpha, or a lock down stratigy that you dont' have the counter for. If there is one thing we always have to remember in PVP, is that it's still just a game. If we don't like it we can always do something else for a while. And no one gets helped when we loose our cool and be enraged over something as silly as PVP

Like Horizon says.. Pew Pew and kill bad guys. But try to have fun doing it
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 994
# 34
07-02-2013, 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doffingcomrade View Post
It would never work. Firstly, it would mean actual teams would pretty much never find an opponent if they were barred from entry.
Only if PvP turnout continues to be as low as it is, which this seeks to start addressing. If more people play, there will be more teams, thus more teams queuing up.

Quote:
This would result in them queuing singly and only accepting when their entire team has a pop, which would in turn greatly annoy people who get a match, only to find that the match fails on account of lack of players because insufficient people accepted the pop.
Well, if people insist on being dicks we can't do much about that.

Quote:
On top of that, there's multiple levels of "premadeness", from "random people who are bored and decide to form a team of people who they think are semi-competent so they don't have to put up with smacktards", to "casual friends who always play together", to "serious teams that actually know what they're doing as a team and drill specifically for whoopass". At what point do such groups become "premades"? Do you want to stick a casual friendly group up against a team of professional asswhuppers every time? Because that's what happens with your "premade" queue. This is, of course, no better than the present situation, as it will quickly result in the "solution" as I previously mentioned, which will then proceed to annoy everyone else.
I'd contend that there's something fundamentally different about even the most casual PUGmade from a truly random PUG. The PUGmade is people who are deep enough into PvP to, at least, be able to scrape up 4 friends or form a group in OPvP. In a true PUG, you can get anybody from "Yay I just hit 50 ten minutes ago!" to grizzled, finely honed PvP veteran. Generally, you will have at least one person who is new to the point of being a liability. In your casual PUGmade, you would have at least helped that person get better, or stopped playing with them if they refused to learn. In a pure PUG queue, you wouldn't have to worry about queuing and repeatedly getting stomped by the same group of 5 people over and over whilst you struggle to compensate for your weaker team mates and futilely call targets that nobody pays attention to. It would also be a place for people NEW to PvP to come and know they have at least the same chance of getting on a good team and winning as they do of a bad team and losing.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 328
# 35
07-02-2013, 12:10 PM
Without loosing u cannot advance in pvp.
[10:49] [Combat (Self)] Your Proton Barrage deals 96581 (43411) Proton(Critical) to Seto.
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 238
# 36
07-02-2013, 12:13 PM
Great thread Veg

I learnt most of what I know about PvP by getting blown up I watched what abilities where being used against me and what abilities my target was using to defend against me. I prefer to PvP as a pug, I like to have a challenge I think the system cryptic has in place for PvP is garbage for one reason the lack of a rating system.

Now I like to pug and so do others many are very good, I often find that when I queue for a random match I am teamed with 1 if not 2 of my PvP friends or other well trained PvP players. The team we face is unknown to me and the match lasts maybe 4mins...this is not fun for either side

The other side is every so often a pre made team is on the other side and when I say premade I don't mean 5 players in the same fleet...I mean 5 of the best in PvP, players that play together everyday they know exactly what each others build are and how to communicate either voice or just using key binds to call targets when you face these teams just do your best don't warp out...1 it shows poor sportsmanship and that reflects badly on not just you but your fleet, better to at least try even if you can't win...2 You don't get the money if you don't play honey, You lose out on the match completion for the reward.

The Community tries to keep things fair but it's not the job of the player to decided how rules should be set...and not all players want to follow the rules laid out by another player...
Until Cryptic steps up and does something with PvP it is the wild west no rules and when you join random queues as a new player expect to face the very best PvP players cause we have no where else to go don't hate the player hate the game, Cryptic feels its fair why shouldn't we...lol

The PvP Boot Camp is a great place to learn and ask questions but it could really use more support from the players if your new or old and want to learn more about PvP join up, ask questions in the thread or contact any of the coach's we are always willing to help our fellow STO players out.

~The Eleventh Order~
11thOrder Youtube
Specialist
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 292
# 37
07-02-2013, 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivantomdisplay View Post
Without loosing u cannot advance in pvp.

Then I must be number 1 on the leaderboard.

Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,589
# 38
07-02-2013, 12:19 PM
Excellent thread Vegie. I won't put my "PvP History" post in yet, trying to blackmail...I mean scam...I mean, 'borrow' money to hopefully try and buy the Scimitar today.

Specialist
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 292
# 39
07-02-2013, 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
Excellent thread Vegie. I won't put my "PvP History" post in yet, trying to blackmail...I mean scam...I mean, 'borrow' money to hopefully try and buy the Scimitar today.
You see something in the patch notes that I do not?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,589
# 40
07-02-2013, 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by knocky View Post
You see something in the patch notes that I do not?
Yes, the Dev Blog from yesterday specifically said that the Scimitar was being released today.

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