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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,534
# 21
07-10-2013, 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraghul2000 View Post
Considering what you have to invest in order to max out gear in other MMOs, the grind in STO isn't too bad. What it boils down to is that STO players seem to be spoiled when compared to those of other games.

Instant levelling, quick access to best-in-slot gear, no ranked pvp reward system, reputation gated solely by real-time and not by skill/ingame-time/organization and endgame content en par with basic low-level dungeons in other games, plus the fact that endgame gear doesn't become obsolete.

People in here are complaining about the fact that it takes a bit of time to equip their n-th alt with top-notch, best in slot endgame gear, which already requires a low amount of effort to start with. An average ingame-time of 15-20 minutes/day will get your character to T5 reputation with all 3 factions in about a month.

Other games make you grind the same (raid) dungeons for 3-4 hours 2-3 times a week to get second-rate gear which in turn you need to replace every few weeks to stay competative. It's the same grind in every game out there, it's part of the basic mmo-concept. People who don't grasp that might be better off playing Skyrim & co., where - when it becomes too time consuming or difficult - you can just advance via console commmands...
Considering they way Cryptic is going with these reputation grinds people will eventually get sick and go and play something else maybe Skyrim. I for one have taken a break from the game and i'm glad for it as it was starting to become more like a job and some people have left indefinitely we are not asking to stop the grind entirely we are just asking for it to become account unlocked or remove the time gate something that cryptic has the power to do.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 161
# 22
07-10-2013, 10:08 AM
Yup, im with the OP

I have only three characters, my main fed tac, my rom tac and my new engineer. I have almost everything done for my fed tac character, just need to hit T5 Nukara. My rom char is at lvl 50 and at T1 in all rep.

I have basically stopped playing any of my alts regularly. I looked at the scimitar pack and WAS going to buy it, then i realized i would need to go through that whole rep system again....and closed the cstore, once i realized just how long i would need to grind on that rom character, and remembering the brain numbing grind i had to go through before...i stopped regularly playing as my rom character. I now only log into my romulan once every day to do doff missions, then go back to my main char.

My main char doesn't need any more ships. Cryptic has lost out on me purchasing 5000 Zen, they have also lost out on any zen purchases my fed engineer alt would have made.

I know the arguement of "this is an MMO... that's what MMO's do" is one that is pushed out by a lot of "gamers".

I remember the days BEFORE MMO games came out, when PC Single/Multiplay games was FUN... and INTERESTING. Heck, i worked on some of those fun and interesting old style PC games for Star Trek when i worked for Interplay and later Activision.

This is my first MMO.

It will also be my last MMO.

"You know when that shark bites, with its teeth dear... scarlet billows start to spread..."
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 969
# 23
07-10-2013, 10:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by v1ctor1st View Post
I remember the days BEFORE MMO games came out, when PC Single/Multiplay games was FUN... and INTERESTING.
I still buy and play offline single-player games.

"Star Trek: Online" and MMOS reminds me of 'retro junk commercials' from the 80s.

YouTube Link: 80's Masters of the Universe Hotline Commercial

"Each message costs $2 for the first minute. 45 cents for each additional minute."

Last edited by linyive; 07-10-2013 at 10:35 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 153
# 24
07-10-2013, 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraghul2000 View Post
It's the same grind in every game out there, it's part of the basic mmo-concept. People who don't grasp that might be better off playing Skyrim & co., where - when it becomes too time consuming or difficult - you can just advance via console commmands...

I'll pay 5k zen for console commands!! jokes jokes...

but seriously... I get your arguement on the grind, but STO is different... it is a more casual game, the fact of ease of pve and endgame harder missions is testament to this... having a full tier 5 rep unlock does not take from this... guys will still have to grind the marks, dil etc for whatever gear they want (30 stfs for a full space set?) I dont know how many rom missions for Rom weaps/gear etc but I imagine its a decent number.

Taking out the time gate only serves to let people (who have already done the rep grind) grind their gear straight away... not to have to grind to be allowed to grind....if you get me....

My idea of a 500 zen tier 5 rep unlock fits in line with other stuff in game... you can grind rep for free and wait.... or pay up and have it now....personally I'd happily pay up.

Point to note though I do agree that value and some hard should be attached to the best endgame gear....and that a paid rep unlock would have to be only purchaseable after having completed full rep on at least 1 toon previously.

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Last edited by wildchild8; 07-10-2013 at 10:33 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,948
# 25
07-10-2013, 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxlagind View Post
I did it with one character. I won't do it again. And I can't help but wonder why an account-based reputation system isn't in place yet. Each player will still need to run STF's and other PvE activities to get the marks to purchase the items they need, and plenty of times.
Probably because (after Thursday's patch); all T5 Rep projects will give out a fairly big reward of the appropriate Marks and Dilithium. And since some power levelers can get a new character to 50 in hours - that would be a large source of essentially free dilithium; which can be converted to Zen via the exchange, etc - cutting into their bottom line in the long run.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,247
# 26
07-10-2013, 10:51 AM
+.5 to the OP.

I do agree that after toon 1&2 it is holding me back from grinding through it... However, I don't think it should be an account wide unlock... I do kinda understand the philosophy that this is a CHARACTER reputation...

I think that for each toon that completes the Omega/Nukara/Rom Rep, there is a 10% discount in time and cost for rep system projects the other toons on the account.

You still have to complete the rep system, but the more you do the less it will cost.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 153
# 27
07-10-2013, 10:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticarmsman View Post
Probably because (after Thursday's patch); all T5 Rep projects will give out a fairly big reward of the appropriate Marks and Dilithium. And since some power levelers can get a new character to 50 in hours - that would be a large source of essentially free dilithium; which can be converted to Zen via the exchange, etc - cutting into their bottom line in the long run.
A for Zen unlock would eliminate this.....and improve the bottom line....

also creates an interesting dynamic.... pay 500 zen for the unlock now(no big reward).... or wait grind it out and get receive all the dil and marks reward... (is it equiv to 500zen? i can't remember eitherways nice setup)

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Commander
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 463
# 28
07-10-2013, 12:15 PM
Wait... are you seriously asking to be able to pay real money to skip the non-existent end-game and thus finally turn this game into a totally, rather than partially pay2win game?

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that the reason you want this is so that you can get each toon into PvP but if not... um... rep is pretty much the end game (lack of) content in this game. After T5 there is nothing, nothing, for your toon to do and you want to pay to skip that?

I'm not even going to get into how silly buying a level 50 toon, and thus paying to not play the game, sounds to me...

But sure. If you want to pay 1000 zen or whatever to not play the game, go ahead. In fact, let's just remove all the levelling and and rep systems, let's just stick to only one tier of gear and get rid of all those tiresome story missions and all the rep grind content used for getting all that stuff and just make everything available for zen.

Why not ask for the levelling and reputation processes and the game in general to be made more interesting? Doesn't that make a little more sense than basically asking to pay2notplay a free2play game?

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Last edited by carasucia83; 07-10-2013 at 12:17 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,842
# 29
07-10-2013, 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxlagind View Post
Reputation passives, activated abilities, and equipment are all necessary for high-end gameplay.
Much of what you say is good, but this is completely false.

First, let's look at what you do to get the marks: High-End game play. So in order to get the gear and passives you perform the exact same tasks you will do with the gear and passives but before you own them.

The only place they are remotely close to "necessary" is PvP.

You can complete every other end-game activity with white mark 11 gear and no passives flying vanilla tier 5 (not 5.5 fleet/lockbox/c-store) ships.

If you want the gear, and love PvP that's great and yes the rep is a grind for people who are in a rush and want to jump back into their favorite task right away. But adding hyperbole to an otherwise strong argument just gives the Devs a reason to treat your argument as false.

This is a game, that a significant percentage of players would have more fun should be a powerful argument all by itself, since fun is the whole point of the game's existence.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 153
# 30
07-10-2013, 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carasucia83 View Post
Wait... are you seriously asking to be able to pay real money to skip the non-existent end-game and thus finally turn this game into a totally, rather than partially pay2win game?

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that the reason you want this is so that you can get each toon into PvP but if not... um... rep is pretty much the end game (lack of) content in this game. After T5 there is nothing, nothing, for your toon to do and you want to pay to skip that?

I'm not even going to get into how silly buying a level 50 toon, and thus paying to not play the game, sounds to me...

But sure. If you want to pay 1000 zen or whatever to not play the game, go ahead. In fact, let's just remove all the levelling and and rep systems, let's just stick to only one tier of gear and get rid of all those tiresome story missions and all the rep grind content used for getting all that stuff and just make everything available for zen.

Why not ask for the levelling and reputation processes and the game in general to be made more interesting? Doesn't that make a little more sense than basically asking to pay2notplay a free2play game?
ok, so the lv50 toon thing might be wishful thinking... but in its defence... we've already done the content to death...so what difference does it make if was to buy a lv50 and save myself the drudge of going back through all the story missions.

as i mentioned these kind of unlocks may only be for people that have already completed all the content or more back to the OP's topic of rep, guys that have already completed the rep grind.

New players coming in would still have to do these things before being able to purchase the unlocks for alts etc. you see? but it would eliminate the rep system grind for the those of us that hate it... the purpose of this thread.... if rep is the endgame in STO then god help us all... cause its all end and no game (no fun either).

End game in STO is STF's replaying episodes at your leisure, or various other multitude of missions in the Q's (rom, nukara etc) or the occasional dose of pvp for sure. you're arguement of pay2notplay is mute.... otherwise the rep grind is a grind to not play.... course we play stuff with our fancy sets and weapons!! I just dont like having to level a toon through rep for a month to have the pleasure to grind my gear (which i dont mind doing grinding the gear makes sense) when ive already done it before multiple times...

Pay2notplay is the farthest thing from my mind when i make the case for a zen rep unlock or level lv 50. Its pay 2 play what i want when i want NOW. Grinding through the rep system again is not playing the game, grinding my gear direct IS, playing missions with my gear... IS, pvping IS. I could grind through it for a month(grumbling all the way) for free..or Id like to be able to choose to pay to unlock it NOW since ive already done it before...

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