Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 486
# 21
07-11-2013, 10:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
That may be true before, but Plasmonic Leech is a game changer for a lot of builds. It's no longer Sci ships with Energy Siphon that can get near all maxed subsystem power.

In anticipation for the AMP modifier on the Elite Fleet Warp Cores, I have adjusted my power levels that I have all 4 subsystems above 75 with Plasmonic Leech. That's, I think, 13.2% increase to my damage. With my Aux at 78, I'm going to get 15.6+ to my energy and weapon training. 15.6 versus 26 (130 Aux) isn't too much of a difference. And I have no points in Aux Performance in my skills.
Plasmonic is not such a game changer in such that you pretty much 'need' it to counter it from someone else shooting at ya.

Assuming all use it, or even just a few, they shoot at ya and you need plasominc urself to counter the loss in power, so.

Perhaps I was more refering to the romulan ships which have lower base etc, I just dont think that putting all your power to aux from 30 to 125 or so justifies the small extra damage boost.

I mean I got like 4 copies of EptX so two powerlevels are constantly buffed, weaps are at 125 engines at 110 or so and my shield and aux sittin at like 40/30 (I got Warp core Potential and Efficiency at 9 as well, as for Engine performance and other stuffz)

I might think about flattening em all to 75 if its even possible at some point, who knows. its going to be hard with a rommy ship tho.

Last edited by masterkeychnk5; 07-11-2013 at 10:29 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 217
# 22
07-11-2013, 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by side7 View Post
I'm having some issues deciding and tried searching through the forums with no real luck so I was wondering if folks might be able to give me some suggestions.

I'm a tac flying escorts, if that helps.

Also, the T4 passive, Auxiliary Power Configuration - Offense, seems less effective if you're an all energy build since you can only benefit from 2/3 of the stat boosts while you'd benefit from all three boosts on Defense.

Thanks for any help in advance.
Offence will boost Tier 1 and 2 Tier 2 skill-powers (if you need to put points in, 1000+3000 skill points=4000)
Defense will boost tier 2 and 2 tier 4 skill-powers (if you need to put points in, 1500+5000 skill points= 6500)

If you have all energy:
Offence will boost Tier 1 and 1 Tier 2 skill-powers (if you need to put points in, 1000+1500 skill points = 2500)

Not going to say what is best, but lest say you take your t4 passive extra points you get and take them out of your skills, so you can use them somewhere else, Defense will give you the most skill-points.
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,766
# 23
07-11-2013, 10:54 AM
A properly specced Power Insulators skill will completely protect one from being leeched. Leech was changed last year to be easily countered this way.

Funny thought though, if the Leech is not a game changer/OP then why did the feds complain so loudly to get it?

The only real choice of wether to go for the Nukara passives is to keep abreast of Power Creep in the game and /or to further a build idea one may be working on a specific toon.
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,515
# 24
07-11-2013, 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
But that's kind of the point of what my post was saying. I think most folks have that bookmarked.

Look at the numbers up there under the numbers you mentioned.

6 is 84.
9 is 99.

There is DR going from 6 to 9, because each of those only provides +5. 1-3 provides +18, 4-6 provides +10, and 7-9 provides +5.

So you look at Energy Weapons Training...each "pt" provides 0.5 damage in the example given there.

2 skill levels is 36 pts... base is 249, 2 is 267 (+18 dmg, 0.5 x 36).
8 skill levels is 94 pts... base is 249, 8 is 296 (+47 dmg, 0.5 x 94).

That 0.5 per pt remains the same. If you had 150 pts in EWT, with the base damage of 249 - your damage would be 324 (0.5 x 150, +75 dmg).

The DR arises because you go from getting +18 per level to +10 per level to 10 +5 per level...but the value for each point given is the same.
Lol, I had to stop and read what you were really saying, that's an interesting way to look at it, definitely. Although, I also have to raise the point that other starship abilities have 7/8/9 effects that are practically the same, meaning 0.5 multiplier doesn't always apply. I also have to ask, do you know if the multiplier works past 99 bonus level in EWT or is that just theoretical? If yes, that would definitely make the t4 passive somewhat useful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post

Funny thought though, if the Leech is not a game changer/OP then why did the feds complain so loudly to get it?
Well for one, without it, I would not have 3 subsystems almost maxed out on my fed fleet patrol escorts with a tactical alien. 64 guaranteed (almost instant) power gain, even spread evenly across 4 subsystems is not nothing. This allows to invest more power into shields, therefore more shields resistance/regeneration rate bonus. This is a good thing. I don't know how you can even compare that to the maco shield. MACO STFers get to worry more about torpedoes than incoming energy. Power gain with maco shield? Sometimes it doesn't even come when you're getting your ass kicked by a tactical cube. KDF just needed to shoot their way through to get the power boost. How exactly is that balanced? PvP wise, maco shields boost in power was conditional to receiving all energy damage (whatever that means). What if you had to fight torpedo boats?
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Last edited by deokkent; 07-11-2013 at 11:29 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,123
# 25
07-11-2013, 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by masterkeychnk5 View Post
Plasmonic is not such a game changer in such that you pretty much 'need' it to counter it from someone else shooting at ya.

Assuming all use it, or even just a few, they shoot at ya and you need plasominc urself to counter the loss in power, so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
A properly specced Power Insulators skill will completely protect one from being leeched. Leech was changed last year to be easily countered this way.

Funny thought though, if the Leech is not a game changer/OP then why did the feds complain so loudly to get it?

The only real choice of wether to go for the Nukara passives is to keep abreast of Power Creep in the game and /or to further a build idea one may be working on a specific toon.
What bitemepwe said. Leech's drain can be gimped by Power Insulators. Leech was never a problem for me when KDF was using it against me. I believe drains are pretty much resisted by 50% without any points in Power Insulators (at least, that was the case for Aceton Assimilators....I seem to recall it being the same for Leech). Maxed PI, and it gets lowered even more (by another 50% of what's left).

What makes Leech great is the bonus to your power levels. Which is why, if you really wanted to, you can get Aux and Weapons to high levels. This can be done on pretty much any ship now. But the new AMP warp cores make it beneficial for you to have all of your power levels at above 75. 13.2% can almost be considered having an additional tactical console (albeit a low level, low rarity one).
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,451
# 26
07-11-2013, 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deokkent View Post
Lol, I had to stop and read what you were really saying, that's an interesting way to look at it, definitely. Although, I also have to raise the point that other starship abilities have 7/8/9 effects that are practically the same, meaning 0.5 multiplier doesn't always apply. I also have to ask, do you know if the multiplier works past 99 bonus level in EWT or is that just theoretical? If yes, that would definitely make the t4 passive somewhat useful.
It's just 0.5 for that particular item...Energy Weapon Training and a Beam Array. Each of the skill bonuses will have their own bonus for each point that they have.

You can get an idea of what the bonus provided by each point is for each one from that chart.

Pick one of the "blue" entries.
Subtract the base number from the "blue" number.
Divide that number by the number listed under the skill level at the top.

That will be your boost provided.

You can check it, by doing the following...pick a skill level, grab the number beneath it, multiply that number by the bonus number you grabbed from doing the previous thing, add that to the base...and it should match the number listed on the chart (or be close, some will be off by a little here and there because of the rounding that takes place in STO).

They do provide their boosts beyond the 99 (which oddly enough for calculations for most things tends to be 99.9 instead of 99).

It's like the Omega passive...Omega Weapon Training. It's giving +30, taking folks to 129. There's the Enhanced Shield one that gives +30 Shield Systems - taking folks to 129.

I've got a Snooper that has 9 Sensors, the Astrophysicist Trait, runs 4x Sensor Probes Mk XII, etc, etc, etc. Pop out a Sensor Probe, make a note of the numbers, pop it back in, each "pt" is the same no matter how many of the consoles I shuffle in and out.

Consoles are one of the easiest ways to test those bonus numbers - because once you've determined the bonus amount per "pt" - you know how much a console should give you. So you pop an ability dependent upon that particular skill...voila!
Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 486
# 27
07-11-2013, 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
What bitemepwe said. Leech's drain can be gimped by Power Insulators. Leech was never a problem for me when KDF was using it against me. I believe drains are pretty much resisted by 50% without any points in Power Insulators (at least, that was the case for Aceton Assimilators....I seem to recall it being the same for Leech). Maxed PI, and it gets lowered even more (by another 50% of what's left).

What makes Leech great is the bonus to your power levels. Which is why, if you really wanted to, you can get Aux and Weapons to high levels. This can be done on pretty much any ship now. But the new AMP warp cores make it beneficial for you to have all of your power levels at above 75. 13.2% can almost be considered having an additional tactical console (albeit a low level, low rarity one).
I wasnt aware that Leech could be completely countered by PI drain wise.

So yeah I guess the power level increase is nice. But back to the original discussion of comparing both nukara tier 4 passives, Its still hard (On a romulan ship) to stay on 125 weapion power at all times and having maximum auxiliary without significantly impairing your ships speed/defense, for only a meager damage increase.

Also I still stand with my original post about Leech needed to counter leech, or 'balance' yourself towards other players.

You gain * amount (16~?) power level in all, wheeas your opponent does not. So in order to balance or get yourself up to par you would also need Plasmonic yourself, or am i wrong in that assumption?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Funny thought though, if the Leech is not a game changer/OP then why did the feds complain so loudly to get it?
I could care less about the Fed cryers, but it was only problematic when they could stack for me personally. Maco boost was still pretty good most of the time in PvP, since you're getting shot at there alot and alot more, comparing to STF's lol.

Last edited by masterkeychnk5; 07-11-2013 at 11:34 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,451
# 28
07-11-2013, 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
But the new AMP warp cores make it beneficial for you to have all of your power levels at above 75. 13.2% can almost be considered having an additional tactical console (albeit a low level, low rarity one).
Has anybody run an AMP core to see where the boost comes into play? Is it working like a Tac console or is it working like a Tac ability? I've never delved into Torp/Mine math, but for Directed Energy there's going to be a difference there depending on how it is done.

Say we had Random Energy Beam Array Mk XII...running at 125 Weapon Power, 99 Weapon Training, 99 Energy Weapon Training...standard stuff - no special gearing, no passives, etc, etc, etc. (The following was made possible by information/calculations/formulas provided by bareel.)

Base
Base = 100
+ (100 * (0.999 * 0.5)) = 149.95 (Weapon Training)
+ (100 * (0.999 * 0.5)) = 199.9 (Energy Weapons)
+ (100 * 1.2) = 319.9 (Mark XII)
+ (100 * (4 * 0.025)) = 329.9 (Very Rare)
* (1 + ((125-50) * 0.02))) = 824.75 (Weapon Power)

IF@Console
Base = 100
+ (100 * (0.999 * 0.5)) = 149.95 (Weapon Training)
+ (100 * (0.999 * 0.5)) = 199.9 (Energy Weapons)
+ (100 * 1.2) = 319.9 (Mark XII)
+ (100 * (4 * 0.025)) = 329.9 (Very Rare)
+ (100 * 0.132) = 343.1 (AMP)
* (1 + ((125-50) * 0.02))) = 857.75 (Weapon Power)

IF@Ability
Base = 100
+ (100 * (0.999 * 0.5)) = 149.95 (Weapon Training)
+ (100 * (0.999 * 0.5)) = 199.9 (Energy Weapons)
+ (100 * 1.2) = 319.9 (Mark XII)
+ (100 * (4 * 0.025)) = 329.9 (Very Rare)
* (1 + ((125-50) * 0.02))) = 824.75 (Weapon Power)
+ (824.75 * 0.132) = 933.617 (AMP)

Base: 824.75
@Console: 857.75 (+33 dmg or +4% dmg)
@Ability: 933.617 (+108.867 dmg or +13.2% dmg)

Of course, that's without any other abilities/consoles/etc/etc/etc being accounted for in that determination...

...was just curious if anybody knew how it was going to work.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,451
# 29
07-11-2013, 12:06 PM
For me, the T4 is much better than the T2.

Enhanced Shield Penetration...directed energy...doesn't do anything for my torp boats. Kind of like the Singularity Overcharge from the Romulan Singularity Abilities is useless for my Reman.

With the T4, whether I go Def/Off...all of my guys will at least get something.

With the T2...I'm forced to go with the +5% hull (which can be silly) for my torp guys.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,123
# 30
07-11-2013, 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by masterkeychnk5 View Post
for only a meager damage increase.
Each of my MK XII purple tactical consoles increases the DPS on my DHCs by about 90 DPS. That doesn't seem like a lot, does it?

And yet, people complain that KDF doesn't have any 5 tactical console ships.

The T2 Omega passive (the one that gives +30 to weapons training) gave me a 43.5 DPS increase. Almost half of a MK XII purple console.

At the time of my testing, back when my Aux power level was at 55 (giving me +11.1 weapon training and energy weapons), I was getting a 32.2 DPS increase.

When I set it to 65, or half of 130 (giving me +13.0 to weapon training and energy weapons), I got 38.2 DPS. Let's say I have 130 power to Aux, or double the power at 65, I can now get ~76.4 DPS.

That's about 85% of what I get from a MK XII purple tactical console.

It's really not a meager amount. If you add the T2 Omega and the T4 Nukura (at 65 power level), you almost have enough to equal another MK XII purple tactical console. With Leech, I now have, what is essentially, a 6th purple MK XII tactical console.

I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but you can see my test results here: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...=746991&page=2

Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Has anybody run an AMP core to see where the boost comes into play? Is it working like a Tac console or is it working like a Tac ability? I've never delved into Torp/Mine math, but for Directed Energy there's going to be a difference there depending on how it is done.
I haven't tested it myself. I'm assuming Cryptic would do the right thing and just buff the base damage, like a console. If it is increasing the damage after modifiers, I would both be shocked and excited at the increase in my DHC damage.

Last edited by shookyang; 07-11-2013 at 02:03 PM.
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