Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 441
While working through some naval-gazing text for a foundry mission, I was thinking about the way STO as a whole is constructed to character advancement. Aside from completing entire missions, XP and drops are a reward for killing (or, to be exact, killing or stunning) sentient lifeforms. You don't get such rewards for completing dialogue, diplomatic discussions and such forth. Fine for Klingons, but for Starfleet the current set-up makes it more profitable to start a fight that to talk your way out of it. You get XP for every body that hits the floor plus a variety of loot. What do you get for helping a little old lady across the road?

Picard would certainly not approve.

But then again, maybe this is how it should be? After all, in the 24th century we work to better ourselves, and the rest of humanity. Not pursue personal wealth. Perhaps the fact that the right thing isn't rewarded is exactly what Starfleet is all about. You have to forget about the reward, the XP, the loot, the advantages to yourself because understanding Roddenberry's message is about living it. Once you say "no, I'd rather take the moral satisfaction that innocent lives were saved rather than have that tachyon beam array mk xii" then you are, regardless of rank, a true Starfleet captain.

</pseudo philosophical rant>

& Rose Tinted Mirror (Fed 31+)
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 18
# 2
07-11-2013, 02:07 PM
Isn't pretty much every fight in STO one of self-defense, at least in the story gameplay?
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 441
# 3
07-11-2013, 02:13 PM
In theory, but how many times has the Picard, Sisko or Janeway talked themselves out of a fight? There is always a diplomatic solution at hand, except in STO.

& Rose Tinted Mirror (Fed 31+)
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 25
# 4
07-11-2013, 02:42 PM
One simple example?
You are living in a culture where one of the best selling games of all time was about shooting cops and murdering prostitutes. Yes the society of game players we live in think this is a good time. So the idealistic future Gene Rodenberry imagined in a game for today simply would not sell.

It would be great to have missions culturally based around events of today that had solutions where not a shot had to be fired. (But where is the fun in that) War is a popular and easy way to engage your players to take side and nothing is easier to program than a fire button.

However there is one bright hope in this game that I have not seen in any other. It is the Foundry.

In there real Star Trek Fans, not the "lets make money off the Star Trek name" Developers can crate any mission they can dream up. Some I have played are very intelligent and much more along the lines of Rodenberry?s vision. Even engaging in moral choices where there is no good answer.

There is a YouTube channel that has really good suggestions for building games that are more about thinking and killing. Extra Creditz

I would suggest anyone that feels as the OP does to watch those videos then see what you can do with the Foundry.

As real Star Trek Fan we have a chance here to change the ideas of this game from the inside.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 96
# 5
07-11-2013, 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomokwihnai View Post
One simple example?
You are living in a culture where one of the best selling games of all time was about shooting cops and murdering prostitutes. Yes the society of game players we live in think this is a good time. So the idealistic future Gene Rodenberry imagined in a game for today simply would not sell.

I see your Grand Theft Auto and raise you the fact that The Sims is the highest selling video game franchise of all time, and it not only doesn't glorify, but punishes, violence. It has outsold the GTA franchise by nearly 3:1.

Heck, even Gran Turismo has outsold GTA on the PS2.

Not to mention the golden days of adventure games - Myst, Journeyman Project, LucasArts series, etc. All *mostly* nonviolent.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,584
# 6
07-11-2013, 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by insanesenator View Post
I see your Grand Theft Auto and raise you the fact that The Sims is the highest selling video game franchise of all time, and it not only doesn't glorify, but punishes, violence. It has outsold the GTA franchise by nearly 3:1.

Heck, even Gran Turismo has outsold GTA on the PS2.

Not to mention the golden days of adventure games - Myst, Journeyman Project, LucasArts series, etc. All *mostly* nonviolent.
Yes, but GTA is working on its 5th game while The Sims has 3 games, but there are a ton of expansions for each one that is the same price of the main game. More games released compared to GTA.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,751
# 7
07-11-2013, 05:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomokwihnai View Post
However There Is One Bright Hope In This Game That I Have Not Seen In Any Other. It Is The Foundry.

In There Real Star Trek Fans, Not The "lets Make Money Off The Star Trek Name" Developers Can Crate Any Mission They Can Dream Up. Some I Have Played Are Very Intelligent And Much More Along The Lines Of Rodenberry?s Vision. Even Engaging In Moral Choices Where There Is No Good Answer.

There Is A Youtube Channel That Has Really Good Suggestions For Building Games That Are More About Thinking And Killing. extra Creditz

I Would Suggest Anyone That Feels As The Op Does To Watch Those Videos Then See What You Can Do With The Foundry.

As Real Star Trek Fan We Have A Chance Here To Change The Ideas Of This Game From The Inside.
^this!^ Qft!
Show your support for the Revamped Galaxy Class Exploration Cruiser here!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,060
# 8
07-11-2013, 05:55 PM
I'd like to suggest Tiger Style's smartphone games Waking Mars and Spider for non-people killing fun.
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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,217
# 9
07-11-2013, 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by insanesenator View Post
I see your Grand Theft Auto and raise you the fact that The Sims is the highest selling video game franchise of all time, and it not only doesn't glorify, but punishes, violence. It has outsold the GTA franchise by nearly 3:1.

Heck, even Gran Turismo has outsold GTA on the PS2.

Not to mention the golden days of adventure games - Myst, Journeyman Project, LucasArts series, etc. All *mostly* nonviolent.
I see your Sims and raise you Mario and Pokemon. Mario and Pokemon are actually the two top selling franchise, Sims is third. Pokemon has fighting, but it is a competition, more like a sport, then actually fighting.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,330
# 10
07-11-2013, 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomokwihnai View Post
There is a YouTube channel that has really good suggestions for building games that are more about thinking and killing. Extra Creditz

I would suggest anyone that feels as the OP does to watch those videos then see what you can do with the Foundry.

As real Star Trek Fan we have a chance here to change the ideas of this game from the inside.
as great as those guys are, and as much as i think -this vid here- applies to sto ground based content like a glove, the player cant fix the game mechanics in the foundry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by isthisscience View Post
Picard would certainly not approve.
picard was a decietful pretentious trite little coward.
moment he got the upper hand on the borg in q who, blowing massive holes in the cube, he ordered the e'd to run away at top speed rather than pressing the advintage to at least cripple the cube.
as it turns out, an intrepid would lose a fight with a connie.
and thats canon.
! the power of plot compels you.

Last edited by skollulfr; 07-11-2013 at 06:14 PM.
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