Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 334
# 71
07-12-2013, 09:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iskandus View Post
By nerfing DHCs, more PvEers will try out PvP and save this declining community.
Hahahaha haha haha ha. Its like saying "by nerfing pulsewaves we will make more people try out cruisers".
May 2013, automatic permanent ban for mentioning gold-seller sites
pwebranflakes: this system is currently in place and working the way it should.
moradum: I got banned for saying "I started my day with cutting off 3 MM off of the bottom of my cabinet"
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,427
# 72
07-12-2013, 09:16 PM
Edit: Nevermind. I told myself I wouldn't bother with discussions like this again. Too draining.
Take it easy!

Ishmael@scurry5: A Nibbling Sci
"Squeak?"

Last edited by scurry5; 07-12-2013 at 10:43 PM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,718
# 73
07-13-2013, 05:35 AM
Beams vs cannons has a few mutually depending problems imv.

1) energy drain mechanics,
these have moved so far away from the initial design that we lost a whole cpt class in space. Warpcores and marion only made matters worse.

2) Shield vs hull tanking.
Shields resists are through the roof in PvP, and since not a single NPC is actually rebalancing thier shields and all the big optional targets (gates, transistors, etc) are unshielded. Doing more damage to hull(whether shields are up or not) is being rewarded multiple times over. Hull goes pop makes a kill or advances the mission, shields go down is unseen in pvp for a long time, and irrelevant in most PvE missions.

3) Lack of rewarding diversity in NPC encounters
It would be easy to design NPCs or mission objectives that play to the strenghts of cuisers, healers and beamboats (mostly the same thing, i know but, not necessarily so). However, such content doesn exist. There is no mission that benefits from F@W spam cleaning, and there are no NPCs who are defeated more quickly by beam boat boradsides. As for PvP when is the last time you've seen a shield facing going down from single beam barrage (aka not tripple stacked DBB BOs?)

4) Weapon types BO powers
all of the above leads to cannons outperforming beams in 90 percent of cases. If you fly beams its usually that you fly a ship (wells) that can't equip DHC, you've given up on the idea that your weapons are there for the damage (sci ship target subsystems) or IP reasons. Single cannons can be your friend if you have enough tac slots. While Duals are useless and poorly designed for as long as i can recall playing STO.

5) lets not forget that cannons with CRF proc more often then beams. Another advantage on top pf the above.

6) inflated parser data leads people to confuse effective dmg with overall DPS. "I did 16k dmg in infected in a Vesta all has to be fine!"


Nerfing DHC is not the way to go. Buff singles and especially duals (give them a bigger angle?), and make the advantage of beams vs. shields count by tweaking NPCs, STF objectives, and the various forms of shield tanking in PvP. Tac team made broadsiding pretty poor, the fact that most carrier pets like danoobs, are laughing off broadsides long enough for them to cause their havoc doesn't help either.

my 2ec
Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013

Last edited by havam; 07-13-2013 at 05:41 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,492
# 74
07-13-2013, 04:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by havam View Post
Beams vs cannons has a few mutually depending problems imv.

1) energy drain mechanics,
these have moved so far away from the initial design that we lost a whole cpt class in space. Warpcores and marion only made matters worse.

2) Shield vs hull tanking.
Shields resists are through the roof in PvP, and since not a single NPC is actually rebalancing thier shields and all the big optional targets (gates, transistors, etc) are unshielded. Doing more damage to hull(whether shields are up or not) is being rewarded multiple times over. Hull goes pop makes a kill or advances the mission, shields go down is unseen in pvp for a long time, and irrelevant in most PvE missions.

3) Lack of rewarding diversity in NPC encounters
It would be easy to design NPCs or mission objectives that play to the strenghts of cuisers, healers and beamboats (mostly the same thing, i know but, not necessarily so). However, such content doesn exist. There is no mission that benefits from F@W spam cleaning, and there are no NPCs who are defeated more quickly by beam boat boradsides. As for PvP when is the last time you've seen a shield facing going down from single beam barrage (aka not tripple stacked DBB BOs?)

4) Weapon types BO powers
all of the above leads to cannons outperforming beams in 90 percent of cases. If you fly beams its usually that you fly a ship (wells) that can't equip DHC, you've given up on the idea that your weapons are there for the damage (sci ship target subsystems) or IP reasons. Single cannons can be your friend if you have enough tac slots. While Duals are useless and poorly designed for as long as i can recall playing STO.

5) lets not forget that cannons with CRF proc more often then beams. Another advantage on top pf the above.

6) inflated parser data leads people to confuse effective dmg with overall DPS. "I did 16k dmg in infected in a Vesta all has to be fine!"


Nerfing DHC is not the way to go. Buff singles and especially duals (give them a bigger angle?), and make the advantage of beams vs. shields count by tweaking NPCs, STF objectives, and the various forms of shield tanking in PvP. Tac team made broadsiding pretty poor, the fact that most carrier pets like danoobs, are laughing off broadsides long enough for them to cause their havoc doesn't help either.

my 2ec
1. agree: Resists and passive repairs have hurt variety of ship layouts.

2. not sure this is a beams vs cannon issue, more of a burst vs DoT issue. BO even from a Beam Array can be more effective if well timed than a non-Tac CRF. BO also has the benefit of applying the damage instantly, less damage fall off at range, wider arc, and only takes 1 weapon mount to use it effectively. Not bad for the best energy weapon burst in the game.

3. Not sure if this is true anymore. Aux2batt cruisers w/Dem/Plasm&Disrupter Procs/APB/FaW etc have the potential for very high DPS in PvE. There's also a couple of missions like NWS and the Fleet mission where people are rewarded by keeping freighters alive where I can see Beamboats shine. Though there should be more variety I agree.

4. Again, not sure about the damage potential (in non-PvP environment) of DoT anymore. I messed around w/Romulan sci ship for awhile, and I used Beam Arrays/Torps/Mines even though it could fit DCHs. Imo, BO2 is better than a CRF1/CVS1 in a situation where you know you'll have a modest spike at best.

5. What procs are you referring too? Most procs are based on firing cycling not shots per cycle. Being on the other end of old FaW balls, 8 beamed cruiser balls proc plenty.

6. agree, which is why I prefer the BO2 BA I mentioned in #4 vs dhcs w/crf1.

To me the passive repairs and resists need to drop. I'd also add TSSx strips any EPtX that's active, ie EPtX 1 would be stripped by a TSSx 1 or higher. A TSSx1 vs an EPtX 2 would drop the effectiveness of EPtX 1. It would give people a reason to use TSSx again anyway.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 290
# 75
07-15-2013, 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtheyak View Post
Sorry to hear that. Try PvP again and you might have better luck.
Not likely. Just did a CnH to test the waters, same result.

It was all elite fleet hangars (swarms of them) and elite fleet weapons and uberconsoles and multiple instances of tractor beams/gravity well/viral matrix/warp plasma, and APO3 and evasive maneuvers wouldn't break it off. I was literally paralized beyond saving before even firing the first shot.

Escorts game my a...
Husker - RugBurn
Zaan - Mel'Kor - Zarek
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 40
# 76
07-15-2013, 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maltinpolar View Post
Not likely. Just did a CnH to test the waters, same result.

It was all elite fleet hangars (swarms of them) and elite fleet weapons and uberconsoles and multiple instances of tractor beams/gravity well/viral matrix/warp plasma, and APO3 and evasive maneuvers wouldn't break it off. I was literally paralized beyond saving before even firing the first shot.

Escorts game my a...
Polarize hull is your friend.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 270
# 77
07-15-2013, 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maltinpolar View Post
APO3 and evasive maneuvers wouldn't break it off.
APO and evasive breaks almost everything. You probably forgot the engine battery for the VM. Try EPTE also.

My unexceptional escort doesn't have any problem breaking all that and I'm not even close to being the best escort pilot.

"Try PvP again" was my attempt at finding a nice way to say "You're doing it wrong."
K'eg/T'lol/Dude/Yak
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,746
# 78
07-16-2013, 09:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iskandus View Post
DHC is the most OP weapon ever. They can put out insane dps number that just kills PvP gameplay. Many can kill a player with their DHC within 2-3 seconds, far faster than any other weapons in STO.

By nerfing DHCs, more PvEers will try out PvP and save this declining community.

Will you ask Cryptic to nerf DHC and what would be your proposed nerf(s)?
Escorts and DHCs are fine in PvP. If you have troubles killing an Escort with a team (yes, it's a team game, 1v1er), then you're doing it wrong.

Don't pug if you don't want to take your chances on getting a **** team composition that can't handle different threats.


Click here and here if you are interested in learning more about PvP.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,746
# 79
07-16-2013, 09:23 AM
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~BranFlakes


Click here and here if you are interested in learning more about PvP.

Last edited by pwebranflakes; 07-17-2013 at 12:21 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 290
# 80
07-19-2013, 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by highlet View Post
Polarize hull is your friend.
Tried that. Doesn't make any difference.

Cheers.
Husker - RugBurn
Zaan - Mel'Kor - Zarek
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:58 PM.