Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 229
# 111
07-16-2013, 06:51 AM
Eagerly awaiting a refresher on the guide, with some of the reputation additions to grow into .. i know there are some PvP NoNo's in the rep system for example ...

That said ... the guide was meant as a 3 ship build ... PvP escort, PvP cruiser & PvE escort ..
As a starting point for ppl to participate in the PvP game, and not get blown up 15x in 2minutes flat .... (now they can actually fly into the firefight for a few seconds against an organised team).....

Use & learn ... there is no 1 way ....

As for his PvEscort ... that is still a very good thing to make & fairly easy to obtain for alot of people, instantly making their game alot more quick/survivable/enjoyable for a few hours work in getting said items, even if it can use abit of an update on the items themselves .....
Maco & Borg gear are quite hard on the resources to obtain currently with the reputation system for example ....


Plz update the guide to make it even more awesome than it currently is ... i am fairly sure that the current hit-statistics for the website will display it gets visited quite alot for a page not changed since 2012-11


Plz turn these few cents into some serious bucks ....
Jive ... STO addict...
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 991
# 112
07-16-2013, 07:36 AM
I think the point was to make basically one build that people could go to as a baseline. No options to weigh, no figuring out how you're going to specialize, just "Do this and you won't suck". It also needed to be cheap and not rely on expensive Doffs or rep gear. In that capacity, I think it's fine the way it is. I still link people to it who are totally new and lost, or even long time players who never looked into making a high quality/PvP-capable build before. Once they master that baseline build, then they can start thinking about customizing and specializing for whatever the environment of the current meta is.
Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 486
# 113
07-16-2013, 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post
I was under the impression with it being a "guide" was it showed you the basics and let you modify it anyway you wanted?
Oh definately for sure mate. I just try and promote people to actually think why you use a specific option in a specific build, if people learn why they use the options/combos they use, and understand the mechanics, it will eventually lead these people in creating other successful builds.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,053
# 114
07-16-2013, 10:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post
I was under the impression with it being a "guide" was it showed you the basics and let you modify it anyway you wanted?
Can see where it may need to be updated some for things since S7, though - no? There was a recent post somewhere from somebody that said they followed the Escort build and were having various issues - given the changes to STO since S7, one might see where folks could have issues.
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
V.S.S. Oracle, D'Kyr-class Science Vessel
Career Officer
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 683
# 115
07-16-2013, 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
There was a recent post somewhere from somebody that said they followed the Escort build and were having various issues - given the changes to STO since S7, one might see where folks could have issues.
What kind of issues?

Other than the difficulty of obtaining Borg/MACO on a new character (which is a problem that I adressed in the 'Gear' section by recommending Breen+Paratrinic) I don't really see a problem with the build.

Of course, the metagame has moved to spike builds, but is there any idiot-proof spike build? The reason why I went with 4 DHC instead of 3+Torp back when I first wrote the guide was that 4 DHCs is much easier to fly, and I think this still holds true.

Some cautionary words regarding the pvp dps-usefulness of the cruiser might be in order, but I think it's still a good cruiser build.

The primary improvements for the builds that I can think of are dual EPtX builds with doffs - but that requires not-so-cheap doffs, and therefore I probably won't do it.

A different problem is something like leech. I guess it's a really powerful console, but it is comparatively difficult to obtain for new players, and the supplies are limited. That's also the reason why I never recommended particular exchange/drop-only gear.



But maybe I should include a "Should I play PVP in STO?" section and state my opinon of the current game!?
http://hilbertguide.com

Last edited by mancom; 07-16-2013 at 12:40 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
# 116
07-16-2013, 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
But maybe I should include a "Should I play PVP in STO?" section and state my opinon of the current game!?
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Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 486
# 117
07-16-2013, 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
What kind of issues?

Other than the difficulty of obtaining Borg/MACO on a new character (which is a problem that I adressed in the 'Gear' section by recommending Breen+Paratrinic) I don't really see a problem with the build.

Of course, the metagame has moved to spike builds, but is there any idiot-proof spike build? The reason why I went with 4 DHC instead of 3+Torp back when I first wrote the guide was that 4 DHCs is much easier to fly, and I think this still holds true.

Some cautionary words regarding the pvp dps-usefulness of the cruiser might be in order, but I think it's still a good cruiser build.

The primary improvements for the builds that I can think of are dual EPtX builds with doffs - but that requires not-so-cheap doffs, and therefore I probably won't do it.

A different problem is something like leech. I guess it's a really powerful console, but it is comparatively difficult to obtain for new players, and the supplies are limited. That's also the reason why I never recommended particular exchange/drop-only gear.



But maybe I should include a "Should I play PVP in STO?" section and state my opinon of the current game!?
Perhaps if we stopped assuming all newcomers to PvP are idiots, things would naturally go better for em?


Ok, idiotproof spike builds, since having a cloak its not that much different then rotating EptX abilities under your WASD/Spacebar keys. Stack 2 Beam overloads, decloak and autofire, just press spacebar and whoop there ya go. Might need a timed TB but even that isnt too hard.

There is alot more too it and there is alot more variation then the standard every 1.30m (Alpha timer) build, which has too much shortcomings even if you can make it succeed 95>% of the time.

How is plasmonic so hard to get? Cap of a F2p is 10m, i thought a plasmonic console pack was somewhere around a mil. back in the early days i obtained like 5M ec on each toon just by leveling and selling low level **** gear. Grind up a romulan and have a big chance to get a boff which is around 10M worth or more.

I dont get all this nonsense about not being able to obtain stuff, granted the Rep grind pretty much kills half of the potential players and stop before they ever really gave PvP a chance, but cmon.

Seriously, you base your writings and guides on your personal beliefs and opinions on this game, and Imo its not realistic anymore. There is no more old skool 'pressure dmg' cruiser teams as you would like, it makes no sense with 2/3 cloakers in a team or perhaps more. The old days are over.

As sad as it is true, and I like it as much as you do, this game is now all about grind, grind grind grind, massive timeinvestement to obtain your passives which help you significantly in PvP, Acc x3 weaps are still as expensive as ever and require you to increase your EC cap before you can even obtain them.

Fleet weaps are also very good, requires tons of time investement for fleet credits and dilithium, or Zen, whichever you prefer, This game is the highlight of all MMO's when it comes to Grind2win and Pay2win now.

Either accept it or its probably for the best to move on. Sounds harsh, but its the reality. And yes Hilbert, I really would wish this game was back into Season 3~ but it simply isnt. Its only going to get worse.

Imagine in 1/2 years we have 10 reputation systems to do, how would that effect newcomers? I bet the amount of people attempting to PvP and probably stop after a few weeks because they realize its futile is probably 99% then.

Last edited by masterkeychnk5; 07-16-2013 at 01:15 PM.
Ensign
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2
# 118
08-05-2013, 12:35 PM
I was wondering are you planning on updating The Hilbert Guide maybe with the Science Ship
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,702
# 119
08-05-2013, 04:07 PM
Something i noticed in boot camp is that many sto players turn to pvp after they ran out of pve content, by that i mean after many rounds of ise, not when whey finished leveling. So the sweet spot of not to taxing financially for new players vs. helping players avoid making bad investments is thin. Not so much a question of intelligence.

I think that the grind economy could make for a nice additions to the guide. People will slot doffs (hopefully) and just as maco or dis-plasma hybrids are recommended and require pve grind. Good pvp doff can be had through simply playing the game as well. MAybe not SNB or Rommie BO doff, but SDR, DMG control Technician...

eg. Dmg Control Doffs for rotating two different etpx abilities can be had simply by doffing from the lt st'ass's shop, or from the replicator.

I don't think that advanced fleet shields are very expensive, and make for an even better shield then Paratrinic (which also requires PvE). ... There are more examples.

Traits and Romulans woud make for great additions.

@hilbert: If you are interested pm me in game @havam. I have finished draft for a gear/grind/econ guide with an eye to beginning players for boot camp. I didn't have the time to finish it, cause of other deadlines. But maybe some basics about eg. doffing and starbase gear and how to obtain it quickly would be of interest to you for inclusion in the guide.

We do get dil and FM for pvp, so in my opinion, much of the starbase gear is actually easier to grind for then other rep items and that just by pewing so why not use it.

@MT: in 3 years i haven't figured a fun way to get EC. 99% of my shinnies are gifts. Ever since there is the starbase and rep gear, i m happy when i have 5 mio ec on my account
Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013

Last edited by havam; 08-05-2013 at 04:10 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 683
# 120
08-06-2013, 12:26 AM
Does the majority of new (PVP) players have a sufficiently advanced fleet? The current idea behind gear (and boff) recommendations is that everything is essentially solo-able in a moderate amount of time (and in the case of Borg/MACO gear, it's a good idea to get these rep systems up to at least T4 anyway).

I still haven't found time to update the guide, but it is my intention to provide something like a gear progression recommendation for the builds, something like "Paratrinic -> MACO -> Elite Fleet" or "PlaDis -> Fleet Advanced/Elite" or "nothing -> Leech". This could be a way to give a wider array of options without getting into a "you have to weigh the pros and cons" that I want to avoid.

Is there a way to get three blue or two purple damage control doffs from reliable singleplayer sources? I know one can get one blue and one purple from the replicator by levelling up the doff system. If there was a way to do this, I could consider suggesting 100%-uptime multi EPtX-builds as a "progression" for the boff seating.

(Space) Traits is something that I intend to do, Romulans is doubtful for the time being since I don't have a Romulan myself.

Also keep in mind: It is not the THG's intention to provide explanations why something works, it only gives simple "do this and you will perform okay" advice.
http://hilbertguide.com

Last edited by mancom; 08-06-2013 at 12:29 AM.
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