Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 126
# 1 PVP - No thanks...
07-17-2013, 12:23 AM
Ya know... i used to have fun in PVP.

I really did. Then the folks who came back to the game via LoR who used to pvp have decided to stop pvp'ing because its nothing more than a massive bad joke.

Just had TEN arena matches in a row... TEN. The pugs i was in faced off against teams with healers, teams with bug ships, teams with healers AND bug ships. All the way through those ten matches about half of the folks said that was their last pvp match, as far as they are concerned cryptic can remove pvp entirely.

...and now im one of them. There is no point to joining those arena queues anymore. No point at all. The fresh blood which came in with LoR has mostly been scared away with premades, instawin lockbox ships and spam.

Ohhhhh...and please spare me the rhetoric of "well folks should make their own premades with friends!" or "folks should join the opvp channel"

Most of the folks in those pug matches i came across was fleetless casual players which is this games LIFE BLOOD. Scare of that type of gamer from PVP and you'll kill off any chance of new folks getting into the arenas.

As for the OPVP channel... yeah join it, ya get good build tips there at least.

Well done premades, p2w console and lockbox kiddies, way to go to start the process of driving that final big effing nail into the coffin on PVP. I played my last arena/cnh match today, im never going back in.

Cryptic, just remove pvp and get it over with.

"You know when that shark bites, with its teeth babe... scarlet billows start to spread..."
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,341
# 2
07-17-2013, 01:08 AM
Understandable reaction on your part, and hopefully people like you come back IF things ever get better.

For some odd reason, and all this is subjective observation on my part, the number of fleetmades/premades/pugmades in FvF, at least, has shot up immensely since LoR came out. Now, while this may be a good thing in that there is more organisation going on, it also means that casual players are getting squeezed out.

I'm not saying that PvP should cater to the casual player as a whole. I'm just saying that there should be some method by which casual players can have some fun away from more competitive players. Yes, I know teamwork is great to have and is something people should work towards, but there should be some space for those who just want to jump in for 15 minutes, no-fuss, and just indulge in mindless ship combat mayhem.

I show up fairly regularly in OPvP, and it's a great place to chat, speculate and theorycraft. However, I find myself being less-and-less inclined to actually PvP. If I do, it's usually because I have PvP dailies to complete, or just popping into Kerrat.

Actually, I would think that Kerrat-style warzones would be the perfect environment for the casual player, if it wasn't so bugged and unevenly distributed. Anyone can just jump in or jump out at a moment's notice, and dive into a huge furball.
Take it easy!

Ishmael@scurry5: A Nibbling Sci
"Squeak?"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 135
# 3
07-17-2013, 02:22 AM
if they ever make proper pvp camps like we did dynaverse you will be back. was fun times old frind hope u stay in opvp and consider joining an odd big 10v10 or other event. good luck in game and out, u will be missed

ggs
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 946
# 4
07-17-2013, 03:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by v1ctor1st View Post
Just had TEN arena matches in a row... TEN. The pugs i was in faced off against teams with healers, teams with bug ships, teams with healers AND bug ships. All the way through those ten matches about half of the folks said that was their last pvp match, as far as they are concerned cryptic can remove pvp entirely.
So you're complaining that teams you played against had healers? Maybe people should only run Tacs? Bug ships are good escorts, but they are not necessarily the best any more with the Rommies. If you are tired of getting rolled by teams with healers, maybe you should make a healer and help keep your teammates alive or come up with a strategy that can negate the effects of healers (they do exist).

PvP is not some brainless monotonous grind like PvE. Teammates heal each other. They coordinate attacks. Strategies are constantly evolving. New teams are forming. And if you don't want to get rolled by premades you should consider teaming up with friends-- that is, afterall, how premades are formed (the shame).
----
@DevolvedOne
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 136
# 5
07-17-2013, 03:42 AM
I'm not a fan of the "blame the players, not the game-makers" mentality.

PvP has been driving players away for a long time. If it isn't premades, it's some new piece of equipment that is too powerful, or a new duty officer that changes everything, etc etc.

Most premade teams are pugmade (associated players who are playing together, but not in any formal sense of team makeup or strategy), but against a pug, are still very effective. People form these pugmade groups in the hopes of facing another pugmade group. Killing random pug groups isn't fun at all, provides no challenge, and holds no interest. Most pugmades want it over as quickly as possible as not to waste the puggers time, or their time (though more often than not, the pug team will go into "hide and seek" mode and drag the match out).

But the truth is, one of these skilled premade and pugmade players will completely dominate even a pug vs pug match, and people will still complain about the game not being fun so long as they're around.

Being good at PvP recently comes with loathing from casual PvP players who feel that they shouldn't have to face the good players in the first place. What makes it worse is that the rage is directed towards the better PvP players, instead of the company who has done nothing to remedy the problem.

Don't shun the premade teams, thank them. They've done more to try and keep PvP alive than Cryptic or anyone else ever has.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=93695767000&dateline=  1347284393
Lag Industries STO/TOR Guild
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 6
07-17-2013, 03:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by v1ctor1st View Post
Ya know... i used to have fun in PVP.

I really did. Then the folks who came back to the game via LoR who used to pvp have decided to stop pvp'ing because its nothing more than a massive bad joke.

Just had TEN arena matches in a row... TEN. The pugs i was in faced off against teams with healers, teams with bug ships, teams with healers AND bug ships. All the way through those ten matches about half of the folks said that was their last pvp match, as far as they are concerned cryptic can remove pvp entirely.

...and now im one of them. There is no point to joining those arena queues anymore. No point at all. The fresh blood which came in with LoR has mostly been scared away with premades, instawin lockbox ships and spam.

Ohhhhh...and please spare me the rhetoric of "well folks should make their own premades with friends!" or "folks should join the opvp channel"

Most of the folks in those pug matches i came across was fleetless casual players which is this games LIFE BLOOD. Scare of that type of gamer from PVP and you'll kill off any chance of new folks getting into the arenas.

As for the OPVP channel... yeah join it, ya get good build tips there at least.

Well done premades, p2w console and lockbox kiddies, way to go to start the process of driving that final big effing nail into the coffin on PVP. I played my last arena/cnh match today, im never going back in.

Cryptic, just remove pvp and get it over with.
so after the.... well say third match.

why didnt you create your own team? i mean... yeah sure. one or 2 i could understand. but ten matches where you didnt make youre own team?


you cant complain about it then.

youre part of the problem, not the premade.


cryptic has killed pvp a long time ago, the community and "evil premades" are all thats left that keep it going.

so how dare those other evil people play with their friends. how dare they!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,770
# 7
07-17-2013, 04:30 AM
They'll be back, and in greater numbers.

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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,415
# 8
07-17-2013, 04:48 AM
It's definitely a case of...butthurted!
Anyway nerf the "evul premades"...and nerf Bops also!
K D F - Killing Disadvantaged Feds
K D F - The evul way to play Sto

Adm. Marcus orders: Punish the evul Klinguns! Punish the evul HOBOs! And nuclearize Qo'nos once and for all!
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,033
# 9
07-17-2013, 05:05 AM
Casual player posts complaining about elitists ruining his PvP game play experience as it is unlikely for a player who stands absolutely no chance of winning a competitive game option to actually enjoy it.

Elitists flame him with L2P responses then wonder why PvP gets low player participation which leads to low dev prioritization.

The correct answer is they need a better matchmaking system, this actually applies to the PvE potion of the queues as well to an extent. But at the end of the day a PvP game will either thrive or strangle itself depending upon the quality of the matchmaking.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,729
# 10
07-17-2013, 05:30 AM
I know this might be an insane idea, but how about implementing PvP queues that don't allow teams to go in already pre formed. It'd be a situation where you'd never know who you're teaming up with. This doesn't mean getting rid of the old maps though.
Reality is WAR
KHG Klingon Honor Guard
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