Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,662
# 111
07-17-2013, 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
its assumed this is a nerf, but it might have better average effect after this. these cases of negative 100 resistance though, its nothing i ever encounters with my disruptor use, i only ever say a double magnitude for disrupter debuff. there shouldn't be any -100 resistance proc in game anyway, its pretty shameful to gripe when something like that gets fixed. how many i win crutches to you pve kiddies need to blow up npcs?
1. The damage resistance values in the -100% range are probably on targets with no damage resistance consoles and possibly no skill points in damage resistance skills. I'm not sure, but I think NPCs also have no innate damage resistance.

2. The double counting you saw for the disruptor debuff might come from disruptor tac consoles and damage accolades. We don't know for sure what was affecting the disruptor proc. It probably wasn't double for everyone, but varied according to build, and possibly varied depending on what abilities were activated.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,662
# 112
07-17-2013, 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
They've been trying to get away from percentages and to fixed values - which makes this kind of odd. It also serves as a buff to Disruptors, no?

Going back to the guy I used.

37.5 Base = 27%
Disruptor as -10: 21.4%
Disruptor as -10%: 19.7%

73 w/ APO3 = 41.4%
Disruptor as -10: 37.8%
Disruptor as -10%: 35.5%
Well, you are looking at the disruptor proc unbuffed on targets with positive DRR. If I understood the patch notes correctly, the disruptor proc was buffed by things unknown, so it likely a nerf after that is taken into account. Also, I believe NPCs have no innate damage resistance, so it is likely a larger nerf for players shooting NPCs.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,441
# 113
07-17-2013, 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frtoaster View Post
Well, you are looking at the disruptor proc unbuffed on targets with positive DRR. If I understood the patch notes correctly, the disruptor proc was buffed by things unknown, so it likely a nerf after that is taken into account. Also, I believe NPCs have no innate damage resistance, so it is likely a larger nerf for players shooting NPCs.
Depending on how it worked and stacking...could be a few things.

Hrmm, let me speculate with one of my guys...

w/APO1 (+14.2%)

37.5 Base = 27%
Disruptor as (-10 + (-10 * 0.142)) or -11.42 : 20.6%
Disruptor as -10%: 19.7%

w/APA3 (+47.1%)

37.5 Base = 27%
Disruptor as (-10 + (-10 * .471)) or -14.71: 18.5%
Disruptor as -10%: 19.7%

It would be a buff for the APO1 but a nerf for the APA3.

Then if they were stacking, and say they were stacking like determining damage for energy weapons...

w/APO1 (+14.2%) & w/APA3 (+47.1%)

37.5 Base = 27%
Disruptor as (-10 + (-10 * .471) + (-10 * 0.142)) or -16.13: 17.5%
Disruptor as -10%: 19.7%

But of course, that's just speculation on a possible way in which it was working but should not have been...add in to that other damage buffs that might have been in play, and the overall "nerf" would increment.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,622
# 114
07-17-2013, 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frtoaster View Post
1. The damage resistance values in the -100% range are probably on targets with no damage resistance consoles and possibly no skill points in damage resistance skills. I'm not sure, but I think NPCs also have no innate damage resistance.

2. The double counting you saw for the disruptor debuff might come from disruptor tac consoles and damage accolades. We don't know for sure what was affecting the disruptor proc. It probably wasn't double for everyone, but varied according to build, and possibly varied depending on what abilities were activated.
ive used this tool quite a bit, it will become clear real quick what your disrupter proc does if your paying attention to what the tool says.

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...&postcount=487

renim himself, with 1 disruptor turret and no buffs or tac consoles, did a double proc just like my 4 tac console fully tac buffed escort would do.

i know im going to be running this before and after this goes live to see if theres much of an difference before and after
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 484
# 115
07-17-2013, 02:26 PM
Quick replying to thread - my example using percentage values was hypothetical. Disruptor debuff was and still will be a flat resistance rating debuff - I just wanted to explain the underlying principle of Resistance resisting changes to resistance, and that was numerically easier to demonstrate with a percentage case than a flat debuff case.
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,441
# 116
07-17-2013, 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adjudicatorhawk View Post
Quick replying to thread - my example using percentage values was hypothetical. Disruptor debuff was and still will be a flat resistance rating debuff - I just wanted to explain the underlying principle of Resistance resisting changes to resistance, and that was numerically easier to demonstrate with a percentage case than a flat debuff case.
But, but, but...we were having so much fun with maths!

Well, that does make things simpler though. Thanks for the update on that.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 484
# 117
07-17-2013, 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by topset View Post
ARGH. More PvP whining ***** getting this nerfed for the rest of the community.

You nerfed my disruptors, DAMN YOU!, DAMN YOU!

I wouldn't usually respond to sentiment like this, because I don't like to reward negativity on the forums, but this is just simply not true. I'm not fixing this because PvPers thought it was bad - I'm fixing it because it breaks the rules of how our game is supposed to work. That the NPCs don't come on the forums and post about how unfair disruptors are means you're not really going to see a lot of PvE complaints about them, but that doesn't mean they should just stay broken.
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 484
# 118
07-17-2013, 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
As an aside, regarding things like APD3.

Consider the following:

0 DRM - 47.1 = -84.4%, meaning 184.4% damage is taken.
vs. 0 DRM = 0%, meaning 100% damage is taken.
An increase of +84.4% damage.

37.5 DRM (27% DR) - 47.1 = -10.6%, meaning 110.6% damage is taken.
vs. 37.5 DRM = 27%, meaning 73% damage is taken.
An increase of +37.6% damage.

73 DRM (base + APO3) - 47.1 = 20.5%, 79.5% damage is taken.
vs. 73 DRM = 41.1%, meaning 58.9% damage is taken.
An increase of +20.6% damage.

Is it really supposed to be variable like that?

Well, because things appear to stack (only did the the APB/APD part). As in Player A could drop out APD - Player B could fire up APB - Player C could drop out a Mega Torp...

So the APD applies -47.1...
With the APB applying -37.8...
And the Mega Torp doing -33...
For a total of -117.9 DRR.

That 0 DRM guy would take +1562.7% damage.
The 37.5 DRM guy (27% DR) would take +273.4% damage.
The 73 DRM guy (27% base + APO3) would take +77.8% damage.

So is it variable like that...or...is the tooltip thing a display issue and APD/APB/etc are actually doing a percentage thing like the Disruptor proc?
APD wouldn't apply -47.1 to all targets. It would apply that to the 0 resistance target, but the other two targets would resist a % of that debuff equal to their % DR at the time the debuff was applied.
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 484
# 119
07-17-2013, 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naevius View Post
The real question is how much of a difference it really makes..i.e. how much additional damage were people taking when the de-buff was buffed, if you see what I mean.
Because Disruptor debuffs were being boosted by bonus damage, a de-cloaking disruptor boat running a full alpha strike with 3-5 disruptor tac consoles could easily put out a debuff somewhere between 4 to 7 times higher than intended. This edge case of burst damage is part of why alpha strikes were regularly so absurd (though a very small part - the largest part is the extent to which our damage buff powers can stack on a given entity)
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,582
# 120
07-17-2013, 02:46 PM
Well I wonder what will be hit next ... Phaser and Plasma were hit (and Antiproton long ago), now Disruptor ... I guess that leaves Polaron to be the one taking a hit next.
Romulans ...
You start your career off as a simple farmer... then you launch yourself into a galaxy filled with intrigue, power plays, and high stakes games of interstellar conflict, as your career careens upwards onto your final destination ... a level capped Dilithium and Fleet Mark Farmer!
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:45 AM.