Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
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# 41
07-19-2013, 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
By no stretch of the imagination was she designed as a modular scientific and exploration vessel. The closest thing to a replacement for the Miranda is in fact the Intrepid class.
I was always under the impression that the Nebula-class replaced the Miranda-class as the Starfleet workhorse ship.

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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,898
# 42
07-19-2013, 09:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stardestroyer001 View Post
I was always under the impression that the Nebula-class replaced the Miranda-class as the Starfleet workhorse ship.
The Nebula was a side effect of the Galaxy due to the impracticality of sending a warp drive around with every Galaxy
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 43
07-19-2013, 09:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stardestroyer001 View Post
I was always under the impression that the Nebula-class replaced the Miranda-class as the Starfleet workhorse ship.
That's the problem with so many Fed ships having overlapping mission profiles, many do the exact same thing. My view is that comparisons should be made to the mission profile of the Miranda during its prime, not to the roles it was relegated to as it aged.

In that respect, given the long-range nature of the missions Miranda-class (plus her variants) ships were shown and described to be given, the Intrepid is the better analog in my mind.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 153
# 44
07-19-2013, 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dknight0001 View Post
The Airframe of a jet plane lasts 20 years. Australia have had to replace their technologically up to date F111 planes with temporary FA/18s waiting for the F35.

The Airframe of the plane was too stressed despite everything else on the plane being fine.

Please point me to a design that is 50 years old and isn't being phased out.

Let's also consider this is a Sci Fi game and the Miranda's are quite a bit older than 50 years in the games timeline.
My point being, the general design of planes hasnt gone anywhere, has engine and wings.

True, Miranda might be older than 50 years, buts its still younger than the Vulcan science vessel.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
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# 45
07-19-2013, 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chi1701d View Post
My point being, the general design of planes hasnt gone anywhere, has engine and wings.
Say that to anyone even remotely involved in aviation, and let me know how long it takes them to stop laughing.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,377
# 46
07-19-2013, 12:08 PM
The Saber replaced the Miranda.

Back during TOS the Miranda was a front line cruiser of the day similar to the galaxy/Nebula comparison.

During TNG the Miranda was reduce from long range exploration and tactical missions to more shorter range patrol/escort and science missions within the federation borders. It's role has changed over time.

The Saber was designed to do these missions but of course received better weapons and technology. I'm sure there are still some Mirandas flying around somewhere but not given the same important missions it once was.

As for the defiant it's tiny. Smaller than the Saber and smaller than Miranda. It's a powerful engine surrounded by weapons, armor and shields. Very little scientific research equipment on board. The Saber and the Nova were now more routinely assigned to these missions more and more as the Miranda class is being phased out. The Intrepid class took more long range scientific and tactical missions but by this time Galaxy's and Nebula's were filling this role. Intrepid class was to compliment the flagships without needing as many resources and crew to man. It had the same Mk X phasers the galaxy had.

Starfleet was working on the Akira, Nova, Saber, Steamrunner even before the borg threat. The Defiant, Sovereign and Promethious were direct results of the borg threat. Now the previous mentioned were constructed to modernize the fleet and were given more offensive and defensive capabilities than originally envisioned bc of the borg, dominion etc

Last edited by edalgo; 07-19-2013 at 12:28 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
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# 47
07-19-2013, 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by edalgo View Post
The Saber replaced the Miranda.
Wrong on so many bloody levels. But since you can't seem to understand that, let's go through them one by one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edalgo View Post

Back during TOS the Miranda was a front line cruiser of the day similar to the galaxy/Nebula comparison.

During TNG the Miranda was reduce from long range exploration and tactical missions to more shorter range patrol/escort and science missions within the federation borders. It's role has changed over time.
Which is absolutely not the mission profile of the Saber. She has no scientific capability nor was she built for long range, extended travel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edalgo View Post
As for the defiant it's tiny. Smaller than the Saber and smaller than Miranda.
Both the Defiant and Saber classes have variable sizes depending on your source. Defiant went from 120-170m while the Saber went from 140-220m. That's right, those two ranges overlap.

Now let's complicate it even further: the Miranda has multiple described dimensions. Its range is 180-280m.


Quote:
Originally Posted by edalgo View Post
It's a powerful engine surrounded by weapons, armor and shields. Very little scientific research equipment on board.
The Defiant-class is a warship in all but name. Why exactly are you surprised it doesn't come with Bill Nye as standard equipment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by edalgo View Post
The Saber and the Nova were now more routinely assigned to these missions more and more as the Miranda class is being phased out.
Incorrect again. The Nova class is explicitly described as a short range vessel built for short term planetary research.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edalgo View Post
The Intrepid class took more long range scientific and tactical missions but by this time Galaxy's and Nebula's were filling this role. Intrepid class was to compliment the flagships without needing as many resources and crew to man. It had the same Mk X phasers the galaxy had.
You're making my point for me. The Galaxy->Intrepid relationship is nearly identical to the Constitution->Miranda relationship. Which would mean therefore that, by your logic, the Saber and Intrepid classes should fulfill nearly identical roles.

Except of course that they blatantly don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edalgo View Post
Starfleet was working on the Akira, Nova, Saber, Steamrunner even before the borg threat. The Defiant, Sovereign and Promethious were direct results of the borg threat. Now the previous mentioned were constructed to modernize the fleet and were given more offensive and defensive capabilities bc of the borg, dominion etc
Please continue to confuse "tinkering with a design in our spare time" to "fast-tracking production due to an impending invasion by cyborg hostiles". The Akira and Saber classes were both initially just thought exercises that were significantly re-tooled into functional combat ships. The Nova was originally envisioned to replace the Galaxy as a long-range explorer, but was changed into a short-range science craft with minimal combat capabilities. The Steamrunner was originally a light patrol frigate and cargo hauler that became a heavy combat frigate.

Secondly, the Prometheus was designed to be a next-generation long-range tactical and exploration vessel. Basically an over-armed Intrepid geared for ass-kicking on the border. It wasn't built to counter any specific threat.

Thirdly, of the ships in the Anti-Borg design grouping the Defiant-class is the only ship to begin its design cycle after Wolf 359, and then only because SFE called in Sisko to build them a warship. Every other ship had it's role and capabilities significantly altered to counter the new threat.

The Saber is included in that group. She was built to fight, not fly around exploring, doing research or hauling cargo. Which is exactly what the Miranda did.

Last edited by stirling191; 07-19-2013 at 12:54 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,241
# 48
07-19-2013, 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chi1701d
My point being, the general design of planes hasnt gone anywhere, has engine and wings.
Say that to anyone even remotely involved in aviation, and let me know how long it takes them to stop laughing.
Going into Aerospace Engineering 1st Year, starting September. And I found this actually quite hilarious!

Plane with no engines
. Theory debunked, ala Google.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edalgo
The Saber replaced the Miranda.
- Proof?

Quote:
Originally Posted by edalgo
Back during TOS the Miranda was a front line cruiser of the day similar to the galaxy/Nebula comparison.
It fulfilled many of the same roles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edalgo
During TNG the Miranda was reduce from long range exploration and tactical missions to more shorter range patrol/escort and science missions within the federation borders. It's role has changed over time.
- Proof?

Quote:
Originally Posted by edalgo
The Saber was designed to do these missions but of course received better weapons and technology. I'm sure there are still some Mirandas flying around somewhere but not given the same important missions it once was.
- Incorrect, according to the DS9TM, the Saber has only four type X phaser emitters and two photon launchers, where the Miranda had six type-7 phaser emitters, two pulse phasers and two torpedo launchers fore and aft. The Miranda had better weaponry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edalgo
As for the defiant it's tiny. Smaller than the Saber and smaller than Miranda. It's a powerful engine surrounded by weapons, armor and shields. Very little scientific research equipment on board. The Saber and the Nova were now more routinely assigned to these missions more and more as the Miranda class is being phased out. The Intrepid class took more long range scientific and tactical missions but by this time Galaxy's and Nebula's were filling this role. Intrepid class was to compliment the flagships without needing as many resources and crew to man. It had the same Mk X phasers the galaxy had.
Again, where are you getting all of this info from?

Quote:
Originally Posted by edalgo
Starfleet was working on the Akira, Nova, Saber, Steamrunner even before the borg threat. The Defiant, Sovereign and Promethious were direct results of the borg threat. Now the previous mentioned were constructed to modernize the fleet and were given more offensive and defensive capabilities than originally envisioned bc of the borg, dominion etc
And yet again, lack of proof. I could say the Defiant was a result of some engineer eating a cookie, looking at the remainders and getting an inspiration. But I have no proof, and I look silly. Same here, if you are going to state "fact", then attach proof.

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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,217
# 49
07-19-2013, 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stardestroyer001 View Post
And yet again, lack of proof. I could say the Defiant was a result of some engineer eating a cookie, looking at the remainders and getting an inspiration. But I have no proof, and I look silly. Same here, if you are going to state "fact", then attach proof.
Pretty sure they state in the show that it is basically a bunch of guns strapped together with an engine and shields.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
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# 50
07-19-2013, 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mewmaster101 View Post
Pretty sure they state in the show that it is basically a bunch of guns strapped together with an engine and shields.
I was referring to this:

Edalgo's post:
"Starfleet was working on the Akira, Nova, Saber, Steamrunner even before the borg threat. The Defiant, Sovereign and Promethious were direct results of the borg threat. Now the previous mentioned were constructed to modernize the fleet and were given more offensive and defensive capabilities than originally envisioned bc of the borg, dominion etc"

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