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Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,999
# 31
07-23-2013, 02:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alfamega View Post
make pets immune to warp core breaches. which even doesn't sound unrealistic in real world since small and lightweight object will be simple pushed away by explosion waves instead of bigger objects, which will be thorn apart because of their mass and inertia.
In the real world, there are no explosions in space. High-energy releases like nuclear explosions emit only hard radiation when detonated in space, which means that smaller objects will end up being just as much proportionally irradiated per surface area as bigger ones.

I'm curious: What courses of action are even available to pets, and what governs their turning behavior? How exactly would a pet behave if it possessed ONLY forward-arc weaponry and thus had all of its weight upon such weapons? Could these various action-weights be made player-adjustable via an interface similar to the power presets, thus allowing players to determine what and how much they wish a pet to do a given course of action?
Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 261
# 32
07-23-2013, 06:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptkeeper0 View Post
only real problem with that is that would make the pets rather boring just like eve drones...
not as boring as pets doing 25% of their estimated dps...
Quote:
Originally Posted by doffingcomrade View Post
In the real world, there are no explosions in space. High-energy releases like nuclear explosions emit only hard radiation when detonated in space, which means that smaller objects will end up being just as much proportionally irradiated per surface area as bigger ones.
well, not only. parts of the ship will be vaporized as well as several nuclear reaction will produce overheated plasma and gases, all of which can be hardly consider as only "radiation"
also space itself isn't a complete vacuum too. sure, its not very dense, but not totally empty either.

so just as steel armor can be considered as a liquid within armor penetrating calculation so the complete "output" produced by explosion can be considered as a "wave".
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 451
# 33
07-23-2013, 10:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alfamega View Post
not as boring as pets doing 25% of their estimated dps...
I disagree, but I'm not against increasing the arcs somewhat of their weapons to help, like dual beams being 180, while dual cannons and torpedo the same arc as dual beams use to be.

I also think this game could use a improvement to all ai, ground and space. I believe it would help the overall game, with increased variety of combat and difficulty. Along with better pets.

Last edited by cryptkeeper0; 07-23-2013 at 11:23 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 251
# 34
07-23-2013, 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptkeeper0 View Post
only real problem with that is that would make the pets rather boring just like eve drones...

Hmmm has anyone tried using attack then recalling and sending back into attack again? See if you can guide them into strafing into them. I'll try when I get on to tribble next.
Yeah, and it works, kind of. It's gets old really fast. Really, they need to do it on their own.
VA Makbure
The 47th Defense Division Special Ops
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 677
# 35
07-23-2013, 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
That's not really the whole issue.

Is it hard to program AI to do this? You betcha. Possibly difficult enough that the time that'd be required just simply isn't available.

But there's also the rabbit hole... The can of worms... the setting of unreasonable expectations, and the question of whether to fulfill them.

And by that I mean this: Say we were to take the time to improve the behavior of a specific pet, like BOP Raiders. What's to say that players will be happy if we stop there?

What about Jem'hadar Attack Ship Pets? Maybe they want better control over their Ramming Speed?
What about Runabouts? Maybe they should use their Tractor Beam more aggressively on faster targets?
What about Ferjai Frigates? Maybe they should only lay mines when their target is very nearby, and has high health (to ensure that the mines will actually hit the intended target)?
Maybe all those things. But those are really bit parts- the strafing issue is something the community gives more weight because a fix for it would affect the maximum number of hangar bets over any of your other listed fixes, which are unique to specific fighters.

Yes, for sure, everyone would like a little better control over some aspects of their ships, but I think that fixing something that affects a lot of hangar pets, versus not fixing it for.... I can only really say fear of inciting a riot about your decision to do that 'rather than' fixing a specific edge case with a specific single hangar pet.

There's going to be complaints either way, but saying "We could dedicate time to fix this widespread issue, but are choosing not to because then we'd have to fix all the itty bitty edge case issues." is really... kind of bad. It's a slippery slope fallacy- if we fix this widespread issue, then we'd have to fix ALL THE THINGS, but I really don't believe that's the case, and I'm pretty sure the community would agree.


Would it be nice to try and fix ALL THE THINGS? Sure. Your other points are valid- you don't have time to do that.

But I think if you can spare it, investing time to fix this widespread issue would be pretty nifty.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 178
# 36
07-24-2013, 08:08 AM
Ok the patch for the pet power cool down is very nice. Now we need to get the Dual Cannon issue fixed.

Fixed: and thank you for addressing these items
-Pet's commands
-Pet's powers cool down timer has been reduced


Current issues:
-Dual Cannon focused pets can?t use cannons because of AI.


Items of an unknown state:
-Torpedo RoF - It seems like it has been increased but I did not see it in patch notes. (Some more testing is required.)

BoP Qaw'Dun hanger pet AI action from what I have observed:
1. Enters red alert and has a short pause to activate powers.
2. Starts attack run towards target up to 6.5km to 7km range.
3. At 6.5km to 7km range BoP turns far enough away from the target so that it cannot use the dual cannons. This action has the BoP circling around the target similarly to the Kar?fi frigate.
4. This AI pattern continues until target is killed, pet is killed or player is killed.
5. BoP from time to time will use the cloaking device but that seems random at best. (This is only an issue when they cloak on the attack run and then I face palm for the silly AI.)

Well that is my 2cent and let me know what you have seen and the issues you have run into so the Dev team can try and address them.

Last edited by balordezul; 07-24-2013 at 11:00 AM. Reason: ? had replaced a number of items
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 279
# 37
07-24-2013, 10:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by balordezul View Post
Ok the patch for the pet power cool down is very nice. Now we need to get the Dual Cannon issue fixed.

Fixed: and thank you for addressing these items
-Pet?s commands
-Pet?s powers cool down timer has been reduced


Current issues:
-Dual Cannon focused pets can?t use cannons because of AI.


Items of an unknown state:
-Torpedo RoF ? It seems like it has been increased but I did not see it in patch notes. (Some more testing is required.)

BoP Qaw?Dun hanger pet AI action from what I have observed:
1. Enters red alert and has a short pause to activate powers.
2. Starts attack run towards target up to 6.5km to 7km range.
3. At 6.5km to 7km range BoP turns far enough away from the target so that it cannot use the dual cannons. This action has the BoP circling around the target similarly to the Kar?fi frigate.
4. This AI pattern continues until target is killed, pet is killed or player is killed.
5. BoP from time to time will use the cloaking device but that seems random at best. (This is only an issue when they cloak on the attack run and then I face palm for the silly AI.)

Well that is my 2cent and let me know what you have seen and the issues you have run into so the Dev team can try and address them.
You are correct Unfortunately, this game will most likely never have a working and polished AI. It seems to be outside the skill set of these programmers/coders.

At least the ships look cool and the thought of pets is a good idea, but that is where it ends.
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