Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 266
my father's, brother's, nephew's, cousin's, former-room mate lost their arm in a duel, which makes gaming for them quite difficult by conventionable means. We have been compiling Autohotkey scripts so they can play the game without as much interface demands, much in the same way you can make a gaming keyboard execute batch commands with in a cycle, or have a gaming mouse toggle autofire. we then incoorporate these binds that begin in the windows drivers into the game's own robust keybind system, and they can play now.

There has been some concern in the game that he isnt allowed to play this way, that it is wrong, or immoral. Should he just quit playing video games entirley, or is it fine to use Autohotkey to assist them so they can enjoy the game and contribute to its financial success. - It doesent manipulate the game files in any way, it merely makes human interface less demanding.

Last edited by pulserazor; 08-01-2013 at 12:07 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,660
# 2
08-01-2013, 03:26 AM
In a duel?

And you have so many relatives that know you that conduct in that activity ... it is so many people that you know ...

Q was right, the human race is barbaric!

As for scripts, I will assume you are right in your premise (which do not entirely believe),

I still disagree.

The point of the game is to have an interface. It separates the losers (such as my self) and the winners.

I cannot click everything at the right time.

So ... NOOOOOOoooo to you premise.
Hopefully I'll come back from my break; this break is fun; I play intellectual games.

I hope STO get's better ...

Last edited by jumpingjs; 08-01-2013 at 03:33 AM.
Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,004
# 3
08-01-2013, 06:45 AM
Allow me to be as clear as I possibly can, speaking as a forum moderator.

Cryptic does not support or endorse any third-party software or utilities for use with the game. That has been their official stance since forever.

Just as they are not going to officially tell you that using Notepad is an acceptable means for recording chat logs, they are also not going to recommend the use of a Windows macro utility in place of the built in keybinds.

So there are two different ways of looking at this:

1. Assuming PWE considers use of the utility as an exploit, discussing it on the forums is against the rules.

2. Assuming using the utility is not an exploit because this is a general purpose Windows utility, this forum is not for the discussion of software that PWE/Cryptic did not create. It is therefore off-topic and discussing it here on these forums is considered a form of spamming.

Either way, the people who are trying to force this discussion (about third-party utilities) on the forums really need to stop. The official response you're most likely to get involves getting yourself an infraction on the forums, which could lead to a ban.

As you know, I am not a PWE employee. I cannot tell you whether the utility is or is not an exploit. I can give you advice, which basically amounts to the suggestion that you should drop it. If you choose to use unsupported software as an aid to play the game, you are doing so at your own risk.
Volunteer Community Moderator for the Star Trek Online forums -- My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. If you wish to speak to someone on the community team, file a "forums and website" support ticket here, as we are not able to respond to PMs regarding moderation inquiries.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek

Last edited by bluegeek; 08-01-2013 at 08:41 AM. Reason: Added clarification
Captain
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 884
# 4
08-01-2013, 07:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
Allow me to be as clear as I possibly can, speaking as a forum moderator.

Cryptic does not support or endorse any third-party software or utilities for use with the game. That has been their official stance since forever.

Just as they are not going to officially tell you that using Notepad is an acceptable means for recording chat logs, they are also not going to recommend the use of a Windows macro utility in place of the built in keybinds.

So there are two different ways of looking at this:

1. Assuming PWE considers use of the utility as an exploit, discussing it on the forums is against the rules.

2. Assuming using the utility is not an exploit because this is a general purpose Windows utility, this forum is not for the discussion of software that PWE/Cryptic did not create. It is therefore off-topic and discussing it here on these forums is considered a form of spamming.

Either way, the people who are trying to force this discussion on the forums really need to stop. The official response you're most likely to get involves getting yourself an infraction on the forums, which could lead to a ban.

As you know, I am not a PWE employee. I cannot tell you whether the utility is or is not an exploit. I can give you advice, which basically amounts to the suggestion that you should drop it. If you choose to use unsupported software as an aid to play the game, you are doing so at your own risk.
Regardless of OP I find this position highly ignorant and arrogant towards impaired people. It's not even allowed to discuss an actual problem with respect to the game. As a matter of fact I find that it is even pretty close to scratching the law. As you know people with disabilities have the same legal rights of access when it comes to buildings, jobs etc.. There might even be a law ensuring access to digital data. If there is Cryptics policy is illegal. Even if there isn't there are several ways to interpret law:

Grammatical interpretation: using the literal meaning of the statutory text ("grammatical" is actually the wrong word, but it is commonly used for this type of interpretation).
Historical interpretation: using the legislative history, to reveal the intent of the legislator.
Systematic interpretation: considering the context of provisions, if only by acknowledging in which chapter a provision is listed.
Teleological interpretation: then the purpose of the law is considered.

While the grammatical is not applicable and this is more of a European perception you can see where the last three points are going. These interpretation methods have been used in similar cases to extend law to new developments. In casu you'd be able to infer a right to digital access for impaired people from other laws with similar rules regarding jobs, buildings etc.. And if someone sues, and there is no law yet, these are the methods that are used by judges. I wouldn't put my money on Cryptic.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?u=91863067000&type=sigpic&dateline=13687  91708
http://www.srs-fleet.net/

Last edited by vocmcp; 08-01-2013 at 07:12 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,099
# 5
08-01-2013, 07:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vocmcp View Post
I wouldn't put my money on Cryptic.

I would.

/10 char
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 287
# 6 I am a disabled player
08-01-2013, 08:05 AM
I am a disabled player having only 2 somewhat usable fingers on my left hand and a right arm plagued by shoulder surgery. I do not use any outside software. I do find however, that playing any other class but a tactical toon is much more difficult, especially on the ground due to having more skills requiring their own, non-chained keybind. Even certain ships such as carriers are much more difficult due to the additional commands.

With that said, keybinds as they are do provide me enough customization to be successful and in some cases excel as a tactical captain. While my chaining tactical commands may not be ideal for some min-maxers, without it I would not be able to play well enough to be competitive, if at all.
Prime Minister Nayrok: Do not relax your security for an instant, Captain. He is extremely violent, and very cunning, as you already know.
Jean-Luc Picard: A matter of internal security: the age-old cry of the oppressor. The Hunted [3.11]
Lieutenant
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 94
# 7
08-01-2013, 08:06 AM
The debate about whether this is a facility for someone with only one limb, or an exploit for people to use, is undermined by the OP with their opening line:

Quote:
my fathers, brothers, nephew, cousins, former-room mate lost their arm in a duel
All statements made following that, I read as a bogus argument.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,247
# 8
08-01-2013, 08:29 AM
To me (btw I have no digits on my right hand) the OP is looking for a way to justify the use of whatever tool... once a SINGLE case can be made that allows the tool (in the anonymous world of MMO's), that tool can no longer be considered exploitative, or not allowed. This seems to be an attempt to justify the use of bots, macros, scripts, etc. If this is what you are doing, then you should be ashamed.

If you are being serious OP, then first I apologize for my first comment. Second, Keybinds and a game pad such as Razor Nostromo are all that your family members will need to successfully, and excel, at this game. Macro's, and such are not necessary in the slightest. Needing to use this myself, I am more than happy to talk to you or your family members in game on how to set up the device, and what I find to be efficient keybinds.

I have multiple characters, multiple classes, participate in all aspects of the game, (PvE, PvP), and have no problems... and think I do quite well.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,004
# 9
08-01-2013, 08:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vocmcp View Post
{snip}
You are misrepresenting what I said.

I did not say "you can't use the software". I don't have that authority. I said "use at your own risk".

I did not say "tough noogies for people with disabilities". Personally, I'm all for giving people with disabilities tools to help them overcome their physical limitations.

I said, to the best of my knowledge, you can't discuss third-party utilities here. There's no legal requirement I am aware of that forces PWE to allow third-party software to be discussed on their forums. It has nothing whatsoever to do with disabilities.

Now, if people would like to discuss Accessibility issues in general, the Controls and User Interface forum is a good place to do that. You're still not going to be allowed to discuss auto hot key specifically. But you can feel free to suggest things Cryptic could do to make their user interface more disability-friendly. That would be great feedback.
Volunteer Community Moderator for the Star Trek Online forums -- My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. If you wish to speak to someone on the community team, file a "forums and website" support ticket here, as we are not able to respond to PMs regarding moderation inquiries.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Lieutenant
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 31
# 10
08-01-2013, 08:36 AM
I dont agree with it, the player will have an unfair advantage. If everyone could use it then maybe.
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