Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,117
# 51
08-10-2013, 04:20 PM
Hrm. Well.

Good luck to you there friend.


Have fun kill bad guys.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,112
# 52
08-10-2013, 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by icepiraka View Post
And no, this is not about being a sore looser. I have played plenty of 5v5s and such where my team got stomped by the enemy. Those aren't good games, and they're hard to suffer through, but I accept that, because to an extent, those games aren't anyone's fault. It's just the luck of the draw on who you get picked to fight.

My point, if you haven't gotten yet (*sigh*), was that this game was qualitatively different, because it was the first where a teammate deliberately chose to sit out. After that choice was made, we were having a bad time. I felt somewhat stressed, and the Klink on our team was getting eaten alive, so I'd imagine he was having a horrible time. lamid deliberately let the game go into imbalance, and thus he deliberately let the team suffer, both performance-wise and in spirit. When you play a team game, you do NOT let your team suffer under any circumstances. At least, that makes sense to me. It's just as bad as, say, intentionally sitting out in an STF, or as any attempt to troll you team or to troll others. Unacceptable.

I swear people, I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. Learn to read a thread.
Get used to it... I have seen plenty of people do it when the que messes up and throws 1 less or sometimes even 2 less on the other side. If someone sits out and you loose it wasn't because they lost you the freaking game... its because you 2 didn't beat those 2.... you LOST... suck it up princess... don't ask for the QUE to throw you an extra man so you can win and feel good about yourself. lol

I am glad you hate loosing 15 0 ect... yep it sucks for everyone no doubt. My guess is when you win 15 0 the match wasn't terrible was it. lmao

If you honestly don't get that the player you are talking about made a Sportsmanship decision that most of us would make as well... you are the one that simply doesn't get it.

Equating an extra man in a pvp match observing to keep the sides to someone even to sitting out a STF is just plain STUPID and offensive... please go back to the STFs as a matter of fact.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 86
# 53
08-10-2013, 05:48 PM
Quote:
I am glad you hate loosing 15 0 ect... yep it sucks for everyone no doubt. My guess is when you win 15 0 the match wasn't terrible was it. lmao
Woohoo, way to be a presumptive a-hole. Sure a 15-0 win may not be terrible for me, but it's terrible for the other side, and I acknowledge it, that is bad in its own right.

Quote:
If you honestly don't get that the player you are talking about made a Sportsmanship decision that most of us would make as well... you are the one that simply doesn't get it.
Oh no, I get it perfectly. Here's what I have observed: ignoring the Cryptic's poor design decisions with the game, and in spite of all the debates and whining about overpowered or underpowered consoles, so many of you PvP masochists have gotten it into your head that the objective of a PvP is to win at all costs. You don't appreciate or practice diverse playstyles, only homogenized, "superior" builds. You want to cut corners to the fastest route to game victory, where any moral, sportsmanlike player would concede that fair, balanced, and diverse games are qualitatively the best games. It's that kind of narrow-minded attitude which hurts PvP and frightens new players. You wonder why PvP is so bad and abandoned? Because it's you own damn fault! Shame on you. If I lose, that's fine, but I want to lose fairly. Even if the only reason for a 15-0 score is a significant lack of skill on one team, it is still unbalanced and unfair. Just because you can tear through ships and have a good time does not give you the right to deny that joy to your opponent.

Quote:
Equating an extra man in a pvp match observing to keep the sides to someone even to sitting out a STF is just plain STUPID and offensive... please go back to the STFs as a matter of fact.
It is a perfectly valid comparison. While the intents in both cases may be different, the result is the same: hurting the team. And no, I think I shall continue to PvP, thank you very much.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,112
# 54
08-10-2013, 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by icepiraka View Post
Oh no, I get it perfectly. Here's what I have observed: ignoring the Cryptic's poor design decisions with the game, and in spite of all the debates and whining about overpowered or underpowered consoles, so many of you PvP masochists have gotten it into your head that the objective of a PvP is to win at all costs. You don't appreciate or practice diverse playstyles, only homogenized, "superior" builds. You want to cut corners to the fastest route to game victory, where any moral, sportsmanlike player would concede that fair, balanced, and diverse games are qualitatively the best games. It's that kind of narrow-minded attitude which hurts PvP and frightens new players. You wonder why PvP is so bad and abandoned? Because it's you own damn fault! Shame on you. If I lose, that's fine, but I want to lose fairly. Even if the only reason for a 15-0 score is a significant lack of skill on one team, it is still unbalanced and unfair. Just because you can tear through ships and have a good time does not give you the right to deny that joy to your opponent.

It is a perfectly valid comparison. While the intents in both cases may be different, the result is the same: hurting the team. And no, I think I shall continue to PvP, thank you very much.
My friend that is sort of the point... it is Cryptics terrible design that pops ques with the wrong number of players. One of us unsportsman like win at all costs types sat out in the case you are talking about... to combat a flaw in the Cryptic fail que design. Isn't that sort of what you are talking about.

Also your comparision is crazy really it is... a PvPer who DID not obviously wish to win at all costs choose to be sportsman like instead... what does that have to do with some one trolling 4 other people in pve on purpose. ?

In any event your right the ques are full of douche bags.... Read my forum Sig... read the Tyler Durden thread in this section and join up... if you don't want to deal with failed ques and win at all cost types come and fight club for an evening.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,021
# 55
08-10-2013, 06:25 PM
I get where it can frustrating posting on the forums and some of the replies to you have been somewhat hostile, but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by icepiraka View Post
Oh no, I get it perfectly.
...you don't. If you did, that's all you would have said. "Oh, okay - I get it."

But you didn't, you go on to say...

Quote:
Originally Posted by icepiraka View Post
Here's what I have observed: ignoring the Cryptic's poor design decisions with the game, and in spite of all the debates and whining about overpowered or underpowered consoles, so many of you PvP masochists have gotten it into your head that the objective of a PvP is to win at all costs.
...which makes no sense in the least, when your complaint is about somebody sitting out of a fight they did not consider to be a fair fight. Winning at all costs, would have been them staying in the fight. So what you're saying there is coming out of leftfield - heck, I'm generally out in leftfield...and what you said there is out past the parking lot, out past the 7-Eleven across the street, and lurking around an abandoned warehouse down by the railroad depot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icepiraka View Post
You don't appreciate or practice diverse playstyles, only homogenized, "superior" builds.
There's very little evidence to support that. Folks are always tweaking builds, both individual ships and team compositions. There are things that folks have found that work, but that doesn't mean that they're not constantly evaluating that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icepiraka View Post
You want to cut corners to the fastest route to game victory, where any moral, sportsmanlike player would concede that fair, balanced, and diverse games are qualitatively the best games.
Again, your complaint was about the sportsmanship of a player - where folks other than you have agreed that it was the sportsmanlike thing to do. You've also noted that folks complain about things they see as broken and/or OP...which doesn't support what you're saying here either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icepiraka View Post
It's that kind of narrow-minded attitude which hurts PvP and frightens new players.
Yes, people that create these delusional bogeymen - that picture the typical PvPer as something they are not...and then they share that with other folks that are more than willing to believe it...yes, that hurts PvP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icepiraka View Post
You wonder why PvP is so bad and abandoned?
I'm not sure anybody wonders at this point - most folks know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icepiraka View Post
Because it's you own damn fault! Shame on you.
C'mon, seriously...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by icepiraka View Post
If I lose, that's fine, but I want to lose fairly.
But you've shown your judgment to be pretty clouded so far, would it be a case that same judgment should be used to determine whether it was a fair loss or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by icepiraka View Post
Even if the only reason for a 15-0 score is a significant lack of skill on one team, it is still unbalanced and unfair.
So get better. Practice more. Learn. Etc, etc, etc. There's no way that Cryptic could potentially match every single player's skill to another player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icepiraka View Post
Just because you can tear through ships and have a good time does not give you the right to deny that joy to your opponent.
I'm not even sure where to begin with that one...I mean, seriously? It's competitive. This isn't pee wee soccer where everybody gets a trophy and cake. Somebody's going to win - somebody's going to lose...

Willard the Rat, Klingon Science Officer

Swordsman Tip: You are your own biggest hurdle to becoming a better player.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,495
# 56
08-10-2013, 06:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
...Snip...

Also your comparision is crazy really it is...

...Snip...
Like I mentioned a couple pages back the OP likes to jump trains of thought so unless you're willing to ride the:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0N-l0tCHhM

perhaps just hop off now.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,268
# 57
08-10-2013, 07:15 PM
Hmm. After actually reading the thread this time (didn't really have time to do it when I made my last post), I would suggest this to the OP: PvP in Ker'rat or only join organized matches. Don't pug queues. They're all kinds of screwed up nowadays, due to Cryptic's refusal to devote consistent resources to the PvP aspect of the game.

If you fly a torp'Varo in PvP, Ker'rat is the place for you. It's the natural environment for KDF BoPs, as well, because it allows us time and space to set up attacks. The fluid environment also makes for skirmishes of differing size and composition, and in a cloaked ship you can choose what battles you get involved in. I personally don't often pile onto a ship getting harried by 2-3 BoPs or raptors, because that's usually just overkill. . .only time I'll do that is if it's a zombie build. Ker'rat is also a lot better nowadays, now that the devs modified the respawn mechanics to eliminate the epic spawn-camping that was going on.

I also do not subscribe to the thinking that equal numbers = fair fight. Only rarely is that the case, as not all ships are created equal. That's why I feel 2 BoPs working in concert against a tough escort or cruiser is a fair fight, due to the way the BoP is designed.
tIqIpqu' 'ej nom tIqIp

Last edited by timezarg; 08-10-2013 at 07:19 PM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 86
# 58
08-10-2013, 07:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by timezarg View Post
Hmm. After actually reading the thread this time (didn't really have time to do it when I made my last post), I would suggest this to the OP: PvP in Ker'rat or only join organized matches. Don't pug queues. They're all kinds of screwed up nowadays, due to Cryptic's refusal to devote consistent resources to the PvP aspect of the game.
I think I may just take that advice (it's a pain to wait for those queues to pop anyway). And thank you for understanding.



It would appear though, that I'm incapable of convincing the rest of you of my point, since it seems I haven't done so already. So I'll stop wasting my breath.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,021
# 59
08-10-2013, 08:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by timezarg View Post
I also do not subscribe to the thinking that equal numbers = fair fight. Only rarely is that the case, as not all ships are created equal. That's why I feel 2 BoPs working in concert against a tough escort or cruiser is a fair fight, due to the way the BoP is designed.
A Fleet Torp'varo has an advantage over a non-cloaking Escort. Even while blipping, there is no loss of the Bonus Defense. While it loses the +25% Ambush bonus, it's always sporting the +15% Cloak bonus. It's losing +10% damage from Ambush attacks.

My Fleet T'varo has over 40k hull. The shield mod is 0.99 should I get decloaked.

Add in Singularity Abilities...etc...

The T'varo is not a B'rel...

Willard the Rat, Klingon Science Officer

Swordsman Tip: You are your own biggest hurdle to becoming a better player.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,441
# 60
08-10-2013, 10:34 PM
Honestly, all this getting hot and bothered is from the sole fact that people have different ideas of what makes a balanced match. Hence, what seems courteous and sportsman-like to one person seems like malicious rudeness to another. That's all. And neither is necessarily right.
Take it easy!

Ishmael@scurry5: A Nibbling Sci
"Squeak?"
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