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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,325
# 11
08-14-2013, 08:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
It's really funny how the original designers appear like total geniuses these days.
It's scary because I was actually thinking that while going over the new lockbox yesterday ^_^

Now we don't have quality or quantity to supply content.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 12
08-14-2013, 08:19 AM
On the one hand, I agree.

On the other hand, crippling spike damage at this point will leave us back in a situation where good teams will be stalemating and unable to kill protected targets.


Unfortunately I don't think we can realistically reduce spike damage without correspondingly reducing the massive survivability inflation we've seen over the past year and a half.



The chances of Cryptic going back and nerfing all of those survival mechanisms is approximately nil.

Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,170
# 13
08-14-2013, 08:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
On the one hand, I agree.

On the other hand, crippling spike damage at this point will leave us back in a situation where good teams will be stalemating and unable to kill protected targets.
only if you keep the retarded myth & magic rpg model & mechanics

Quote:
Unfortunately I don't think we can realistically reduce spike damage without correspondingly reducing the massive survival inflation we've seen over the past year and a half.


The chances of Cryptic going back and nerfing all of those survival mechanisms is approximately nil.
i can explain how to do that easily.
off the top of my head ideas:
-make the passive regeneration rate of shields the only real way to fix them.
-link the shields current level of integrity to the damage bleed instead of the derpy on/off system
- make epts into a cap boost whos resistance only scales within the shields inherent X power = X resistance schema, rather than the retarded rpg derp
-make powers like tss & es drain aux and shield power respectivly while up
-apply power drain cost/benefit to everything consistently
-- eg, link power drain on offencive abilities to dps potential and the opposite for mitigating abilities.

all of those would be better than the current herp derp of broken rubbish and cd timer clunk.

and no. the chances are not nil. they will do it or this game, that already failed to support itself financially once already, will fail again if they dont.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redz4tw View Post
can you say attack pattern angry forumers 3?
Quote:
Originally Posted by baelogventure View Post
Considering Ryan broke 25k in a NX, I expect he could easily pull 10k in an Escape Pod with a Hand Phaser.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 14
08-14-2013, 08:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skollulfr View Post
and no. the chances are not nil.

Review the entire last year of items and powers implementation.

Take a look at any places where new mitigation abilities were outright nerfed vs. things that were fixed because they actually were not WAI.

Then compare that to the number of higher hull ships, items & passives that were added, contributed to mitigation inflation, and report back to us.

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,021
# 15
08-14-2013, 09:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
On the one hand, I agree.

On the other hand, crippling spike damage at this point will leave us back in a situation where good teams will be stalemating and unable to kill protected targets.


Unfortunately I don't think we can realistically reduce spike damage without correspondingly reducing the massive survivability inflation we've seen over the past year and a half.



The chances of Cryptic going back and nerfing all of those survival mechanisms is approximately nil.
You act like decloak double-tapping is the only way to kill someone. That's simply not true. The last NO BS tourney proved that. No cloak allowed yet there were no 0-0 stalemates even in the 15 minute long games. There were a couple 3-3's and a 3-0, so yeah, people were still dying. With all of the bleedthrough nowadays (and soon to be more) all of this massive shield resistance does not mean a whole lot.
----
@DevolvedOne
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,170
# 16
08-14-2013, 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Review the entire last year of items and powers implementation.

Take a look at any places where new mitigation abilities were outright nerfed vs. things that were fixed because they actually were not WAI.

Then compare that to the number of higher hull ships, items & passives that were added, contributed to mitigation inflation, and report back to us.
they either fix it or the game dies taking their jobs with it.

and not for any kind of new unheard of reasons either, for the same exact reasons as has killed off other games, at the minute, they are obviously working the some model thats derived from the rpg trinity, its easy to see where that model would say what they are doing is vaguely right, probably whatever system this "balance pass" thing of theirs works on.

problem is that is the wrong model to use, and they will be forced to recognise this if they dont want their jobs to melt out from under them. its just a matter of recognising it before the game becomes salvageable due to their own unchecked positive loop development plan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redz4tw View Post
can you say attack pattern angry forumers 3?
Quote:
Originally Posted by baelogventure View Post
Considering Ryan broke 25k in a NX, I expect he could easily pull 10k in an Escape Pod with a Hand Phaser.

Last edited by skollulfr; 08-14-2013 at 10:08 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 486
# 17
08-14-2013, 10:29 AM
I still dont get the particular issue, Fleet Shield + EptS + TT with APO or Polarize pretty much negates most damage, or high chance for a BO to miss. Add some neuts and shield caps and you're pretty much set.

Perhaps the BO bleedtrough doffs were a bit too much but...

I thinkt the issue these days is that all ships are overloaded with pay2win / rep uni consoles at the expense of some massive survivability. But thats just me personally. (I think husanak also pointed this out a while back i believe)

On the other hand look at all the massive defense we got these days. 22+K shield cap isnt uncommon, 65k~ hull hitpoints, doffs that give massive energy resist while using aux2id. EptE buffed tons which really ****s over BO builds, holding one with TB suddenly alot less powerful. Overall the amount of bonus defense increased rapidly compared to accuracy (except for the nukara console) the acc pretty much got nerfed alot with all the subterfuge boffs, the cripplig trait etc. RSP doffs to get god mode, doffs that remove all debuffs when proccing EptX.
I also believe alot of peeps didnt fully grasp the value of running two different Emergency power abilities these days. Both EptS and eptE got such a massive buff its really adds up to your survivability especially from declaoking ambushes that try to TB you. Sure. it takes up 4 ability slots or 3 (including 1aux2bat) but its definately worth it,

I think people both on the offensive and defensive side still havent.fully figured out the new possibilities in this game, i cant always blame them. the amount of stuff being released these days is pretty damn much so its hard to keep tabs on everything, but as high spike builds are what it is now for tacs, super tanks online is still alive as well, i simply think most ppl lost their survivability due to the loss in defensive consoles etc

How often do i see cruisers or scis with epic low bonus defense numbers, no epts/epte, beta instead of omega, 18% energy resist on hull in the best case scenario, running, romulan, khg or omega shields, combat impulse engines,etc. 15 shield power, just asking to be alphaed.

Last edited by masterkeychnk5; 08-14-2013 at 10:37 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,750
# 18
08-14-2013, 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
It's really funny how the original designers appear like total geniuses these days.
Its not funny or surprising really. The original designers were trying to work on a balanced system. They did not always get there, and sometimes were not even close, but they were trying. These days designers are fully into the progression sales cycle. Every new thing has to completely eclipse the previous one to generate sales.

If anyone has any doubts all you need to look at are how the KDF and Starfleet ships compare to the Romulan ships. While I question the sustainability of this model from MY perspective, I cannot help but wonder if STO's playerbase churn makes it sustainable for Cryptic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sorceror01 View Post
....you are a bad starship captain and you should feel bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyonharmonic View Post
However, I think with regard to the Romulan Republic player characters/npcs, it all comes down to a finite point:

These are not the Romulans from the shows.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,429
# 19
08-14-2013, 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
Its not funny or surprising really. The original designers were trying to work on a balanced system. They did not always get there, and sometimes were not even close, but they were trying. These days designers are fully into the progression sales cycle. Every new thing has to completely eclipse the previous one to generate sales.

If anyone has any doubts all you need to look at are how the KDF and Starfleet ships compare to the Romulan ships. While I question the sustainability of this model from MY perspective, I cannot help but wonder if STO's playerbase churn makes it sustainable for Cryptic.
Ever wonder how this game would look like if Perfect World never bought Cryptic?

Shoulda coulda woulda
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 20
08-14-2013, 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skurf View Post
You act like decloak double-tapping is the only way to kill someone. That's simply not true. The last NO BS tourney proved that. No cloak allowed yet there were no 0-0 stalemates even in the 15 minute long games. There were a couple 3-3's and a 3-0, so yeah, people were still dying. With all of the bleedthrough nowadays (and soon to be more) all of this massive shield resistance does not mean a whole lot.
I didn't say anything about decloaking.

Double taps require timing, it sometimes requires making some survivability compromises due to the ways to run it.

Personally I don't see a problem with double tap builds considering all of the things they go against are mostly passive, bloated, mitigation effects, and since just popping TT at the right time can negate this against all but the most well executed attacks.





Quote:
Originally Posted by skollulfr View Post
they either fix it or the game dies taking their jobs with it.
Yeah you're definitely right, them not paying attention to PvP balance issues has really hit them hard in the wallet.

I'd love for them to go back and rebalance stuff, they will not be doing this because it pisses off their massive money spending audience of PvE only players.

Feel free to delude yourself, but that's the reality of it.

The most "balancing" we will see from this point on is new things added to balance out things that might be over-performing (through itemized microtransaction counters) or to build up areas that are weak.

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