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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 581
# 101
08-01-2013, 02:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baudl View Post
@rck01: it is just impossible to activate any BFAW every 16 sec...the mechanic of that power has a 20 sec base cooldown, absolutely nothing can bypass that 20 seconds (no doff, no set bonus)...which translates in 10 sec uptime, 20 sec cooldown = absoulte maximum 50% uptime
2 technicians are enough to reach that, but TT1 and APbeta have a 15 sec base CD, which means 2 technicians aren't enough to keep them on their base cd.
this cuts into survivability since TT1 has a 10 second gap in it's rotation instead of 5.
But what is 5 more seconds in PVE...nothing, and redistributing shields manually (or keybind) can more than compensate.
Since actualy only these 2 boff powers actually require the 3rd technician boff to reach base CD, you don't actually lose something.
Re-read my post. I said clearly that it amounts to roughly 47% uptime - I activate the power every 16 seconds, which means I have a 6 second gap between when the effect stops and I can next activate it. So viewed over a 64 second window - from the time I first activate it to the fourth time I activate it - I've had BFAW3 up a total of 30 seconds. So 30/64 = 46.875%.

I'm doing this right now outside spacedock: I've got STO open in one window, the Windows clock open in another, and I've removed everything from my keybind except for 2x A2B1. I'm then hitting the 7 key every time the BFAW3 icon goes off cooldown, and when I hit it for the fourth time the Windows second hand is on its 64th tick from the beginning of the test.

What about the above is in any way confusing or contradictory to your statement about a 50% hard limit?

RCK
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,904
# 102
08-01-2013, 03:24 AM
ok now i get it, your math is off...30 seconds uptime = 3 times activated in 64 seconds, which is not every 16 seconds, but every 21,3 seconds.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 581
# 103
08-01-2013, 04:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baudl View Post
ok now i get it, your math is off...30 seconds uptime = 3 times activated in 64 seconds, which is not every 16 seconds, but every 21,3 seconds.
You're right. I was counting the number of times I could hit the button in 64 seconds, beginning at zero and ending on the last tick.

My math gets all fuzzy when my wife starts dropping hints like she does...

RCK
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 411
# 104
08-20-2013, 06:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cha0s1428 View Post
The only things that has been proven otherwise is APB which I admitted I was wrong about, and DEM needed for aux2batt which I had brain fart and got it confused with the Francis doff. Aside from that, nothing has really changed, as far as my opinion goes.

I would wager too that quite a bit of your DPS increase came from going from an tac oddy to a FAC. I recently bought a tac ody myself, for my engineer as I was curious about trying EPtW3 along with EPtS3. Yeah sure as a beam boat the turn rate really makes no difference, more of a QoL thing, but dropping that 4th tac console was a considerable decrease in damage. Depending too on what you have as your uni lt slot, and that ensign tac, (I don't know your build, forgive me if you posted it as I don't remember and I'm on my phone ATM, so I can't be bothered to check ) could make a considerable difference in your DPS numbers, if you go focus those slots of damage.
As someone who's used both the Aux2bat build and my own variation of the dragon (EPtX chaining) I have to say that both are equally viable for end game and that the damage is actually comparable (At least from my tests - average about 10k dps using both). It seems that the aux2bat is the new flavor of the month so to speak. It's the new "in thing" so it's cool and the EPtX chain build is older and therefore not cool. Make no mistake though both are good. Just had to throw in my 2 cents since I saw your spirited debate earlier in the thread.


U.S.S. Mary Celeste
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 581
# 105
08-20-2013, 07:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikephorus View Post
As someone who's used both the Aux2bat build and my own variation of the dragon (EPtX chaining) I have to say that both are equally viable for end game and that the damage is actually comparable (At least from my tests - average about 10k dps using both). It seems that the aux2bat is the new flavor of the month so to speak. It's the new "in thing" so it's cool and the EPtX chain build is older and therefore not cool. Make no mistake though both are good. Just had to throw in my 2 cents since I saw your spirited debate earlier in the thread.
By "EPtX Chaining" are you referring to cycling EPtW and EPtS continuously (i.e. the 15 second CD technique), or something else? Because I'm doing this already as part of my Aux2Bat key bind along with DEM3, APA3, APB1, TT1, GDF3, A2B(x2) and BfI3.

RCK
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,324
# 106
08-20-2013, 08:48 AM
The concept behind the Aux2Bat build over the conventional EPtX chain is that with the Technicians your getting cooldowns to global levels.

TT1 > AP:B1 > BFAW3 are all ready every 15s, something the EPtX chain can't do.

This reduction in cooldown is why Aux2Bat became so popular. Nobody would have ever ran such a build before DOFFs where around. And this reduction in cooldowns is logically why an Aux2Bat build outperforms the EPtX chain or Dragon build.

To anybody currently wanting to run an Aux2Bat build but is farming B'Tran for Techs or saving for them I suggest you run 2 EPtS & 2 EPtW until you have your Techs.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 581
# 107
08-20-2013, 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dknight0001 View Post
The concept behind the Aux2Bat build over the conventional EPtX chain is that with the Technicians your getting cooldowns to global levels.

TT1 > AP:B1 > BFAW3 are all ready every 15s, something the EPtX chain can't do.

This reduction in cooldown is why Aux2Bat became so popular. Nobody would have ever ran such a build before DOFFs where around. And this reduction in cooldowns is logically why an Aux2Bat build outperforms the EPtX chain or Dragon build.

To anybody currently wanting to run an Aux2Bat build but is farming B'Tran for Techs or saving for them I suggest you run 2 EPtS & 2 EPtW until you have your Techs.
Yes, I understand the Aux2Bat concept and live it daily. However, I wasn't familiar with the alternative "chaining" method. So, basically, you're running 2x of both EPtS and EPtW and relying on their shared cool downs to keep them up as much as possible. Makes sense.

Thanks for the clarification!

RCK

Last edited by rck01; 08-20-2013 at 09:33 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 411
# 108
08-20-2013, 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rck01 View Post
Yes, I understand the Aux2Bat concept and live it daily. However, I wasn't familiar with the alternative "chaining" method. So, basically, you're running 2x of both EPtS and EPtW and relying on their shared cool downs to keep them up as much as possible. Makes sense.

Thanks for the clarification!

RCK
You can also use Damage Control Engineering Duty Officers so that you only need to equip one copy of each EPtX ability. Frees up some space for other skills, which is always nice.

Quote:
The concept behind the Aux2Bat build over the conventional EPtX chain is that with the Technicians your getting cooldowns to global levels.

TT1 > AP:B1 > BFAW3 are all ready every 15s, something the EPtX chain can't do.

This reduction in cooldown is why Aux2Bat became so popular. Nobody would have ever ran such a build before DOFFs where around. And this reduction in cooldowns is logically why an Aux2Bat build outperforms the EPtX chain or Dragon build.

To anybody currently wanting to run an Aux2Bat build but is farming B'Tran for Techs or saving for them I suggest you run 2 EPtS & 2 EPtW until you have your Techs.
I wouldn't say it outperforms an EPtX chain build. The bonus of Aux2bat of course is rapid recharge of skills, but the low aux makes certain skills near useless. TT can be dealt with using duty officers and there is no reason to spam BFAW all the time. Though admittedly having APB every 15 seconds is definitely beneficial. As I mentioned earlier my test using ACT show comparable damage using aux2bat and EPtX cycle (this was in a team setting so there were other factors at work, but in general both builds averaged around 10k (give or take).


U.S.S. Mary Celeste
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,886
# 109
08-20-2013, 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikephorus View Post
You can also use Damage Control Engineering Duty Officers so that you only need to equip one copy of each EPtX ability. Frees up some space for other skills, which is always nice.



I wouldn't say it outperforms an EPtX chain build. The bonus of Aux2bat of course is rapid recharge of skills, but the low aux makes certain skills near useless. TT can be dealt with using duty officers and there is no reason to spam BFAW all the time. Though admittedly having APB every 15 seconds is definitely beneficial. As I mentioned earlier my test using ACT show comparable damage using aux2bat and EPtX cycle (this was in a team setting so there were other factors at work, but in general both builds averaged around 10k (give or take).
Does your build have A2B and a few EptX skills?
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