Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 591
# 141
08-22-2013, 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by linyive View Post
"Star Trek: Enterprise" recycled too many story elements from across the entire franchise.
That's just one aspect. It had several OTHER and more important problems:

Boring cast of characters.
Weak main character.
Retconning.
Not expanding or using established Trek races from TOS, or when done is with less than entertaining results.
Dedicating an entire season to the Xindi, a group that never existed prior to the series.
Controversial design of the Enterprise.



Quote:
"Star Trek: Nemesis" recycled and cannibalized too many "Star Trek: The Next Generation" elements.
Again, that's just a single element you're focusing on. You're ignoring:

The weak story.
Romulans being portrayed COMPLETELY out of character.
Remans being some retcon slave race.
Remans being oogly-boogly for the sake of being scary aliens.
Dune buggy chase.
Villain is unfocused and not imposing.
Troi mind-r4pe scene
Worf on the Enterprise for no reason.
Another Soong-droid
Data's "death" being moot with "B4" hanging around.



Quote:
"Star Trek: Into Darkness" recycled and cannibalized too many "Star Trek: The Original Series", "Star Trek: The Next Generation", and "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" elements.
And was successful at it. The same cannot be said of your first 2 examples which killed interest in Star Trek, so I have no idea why you would even lump STID in with them. No really, let's have a second take on it:


One is amazingly successful.

The other 2 are failures.


^^^ Again, why is STID lumped in with them?



Quote:
"Star Trek" needs to go into a twenty to thirty year hiatus, so that a very new visionary can create "Star Trek: The Third Generation". Its time for the franchise to gracefully age on the shelf.
How about "don't watch it?" I want more, so I certainly don't agree with your proposal in the least.



Quote:
"Star Trek: Nemesis" and "Star Trek: Into Darkness" created the same sins.
Drama much?
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Last edited by kain9prime; 08-22-2013 at 09:26 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,197
# 142
08-22-2013, 09:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pegasuscic View Post
...Purists seem to be under some false illusion that this Spock is like Nimoy's Spock....
not related to your post at all, I just wanted to point something I noticed that this statement made me remember:

.

I watched Quinto's Spock and I also just got done re-watching Spock on the original series via netfix.

Zackary did very very well in emulating the original Spock, he even got Nimoy's 'walk' very close ( it hit me hard when Nimoy was walking out of the doorway on an episode and I thought to myself "oh my gawd, they even walk the same too !!" ).

The new movies did a very good homage to the original series actors in this aspect ... there were many moments in the two recent movies where I physically laughed aloud because I caught on to their very well played ( and well thought out and practiced ) homages.

Pine got 'Shatner Kirks' mannerisms down good too I thought.



ok...back to the thread.,
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,091
# 143
08-22-2013, 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by linyive View Post
"Star Trek: Enterprise", "Star Trek: Nemesis", and "Star Trek: Into Darkness" solidify why the franchise needs to be put on hiatus.

"Star Trek: Enterprise" recycled too many story elements from across the entire franchise.

"Star Trek: Nemesis" recycled and cannibalized too many "Star Trek: The Next Generation" elements.

"Star Trek: Into Darkness" recycled and cannibalized too many "Star Trek: The Original Series", "Star Trek: The Next Generation", and "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" elements.

"Star Trek" needs to go into a twenty to thirty year hiatus, so that a very new visionary can create "Star Trek: The Third Generation". Its time for the franchise to gracefully age on the shelf.

"Star Trek: Nemesis" and "Star Trek: Into Darkness" created the same sins.
Truthfully.... many of your complaints are things I LIKED about those. Seriously.... making a prequel that doesn't revisit anything is an idiotic idea, and while some new stuff is good, you NEED to have races that have been seen before. I'd have absolutely loved seeing first contact with the Rigelians for example.

Seeing the Kriosians pop up was absolutely AWESOME!!!! It's the sort of thing they should have done more often instead of devoting an entire season to the Time War. But that being said I loved the Suliban.... I was bummed to see Silik die.
HAIL HYDRA!

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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 140
# 144
08-22-2013, 02:29 PM
I personally enjoyed the new Trek movies. The first movie changed up some original canon information, but with the introduction of the Narada, changes were to be expected.

As someone with pretty extensive knowledge of Trek lore, I have only a few nitpicks with JJ Trek, and they aren't worth putting here in this debate.


As far as the story of Intro Darkness being a retread, I have to disagree pretty vehemently. The core story of a Starfleet Admiral creating a dreadnought to unify the galaxy with a military campaign has never seen the light of day on screen. It's adapted from a Diane Duane novel from the mid-1980s called "Dreadnought!" that does the concept a lot of justice by eliminating the Mary Sue characters from the story and wrapping new Trek lore introduced since then to fill in the gaps.


As a fan of the novels, I've often wondered why so many writers of Trek movies and shows to date have bypassed the work these authors put into their creations, many of which are bestsellers in their own right, and here Abrams does just that with Into Darkness, and still people whine.

Its the ultimate no-win scenario, trying to take an old favorite and age it in a new direction. You invariably have purists who can't let go of the past, who will hate it no matter how well done it is.

Me, I take this new Trek on its own merits, and side by side with the originals, it holds it own, and the returns on the investment speak to its success. The original cast has pretty universally given the new Trek their blessing, Nimoy even coming out of retirement to participate in it, so to me, it's Trek.

We, as fans, have to accept that the stories we've read in the past are not sacred texts (As a reader of the books, I can tell you that First Contact broke my heart because of how dramatically it changed the long accepted story of both Cochrane's first flight and first contact with Vulcan) and each new iteration is going to invariably change something we hold dear.


In the words of Bill Shatner, GET OVER IT!
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,700
# 145
08-22-2013, 03:52 PM
From Nicholas Meyer, director of Star Treks II and VI: "Catholic Mass has a text, but various composers have set these words to very different music. When you listen to various versions, they don't sound the same at all. All these Star Trek movies, including J.J.'s, is the result of different composers putting different music to the same basic thing."

If you didn't like the tune this time around, chances are there will be another composer at some point who takes over and maybe you will like their take.

And also: "Just repeat to yourself it's just a show, I should really just relax."
The Foundry Roundtable live Wednesdays at 7:30PM EST/4:30PM PST on twitch.tv/thefoundryroundtable
"I would rather take a chance on getting a change made to the game through positive engagement than know for sure that I got a change made by complaining" -drogyn1701, May 14, 2014.
Captain
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 689
# 146
08-22-2013, 04:12 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTfBH-XFdSc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B22Uy7SBe4

I will just leave these here to explain WHY new trek is crap

Thanks
. . . . . . . . Insert witty content. . . . . .
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,197
# 147
08-22-2013, 04:17 PM
kind of late on the starting block with those links bud .... not a new thing anymore.

Even that other JJ thread has the link on the very first post......oh look .... 'YOU' started that other thread ...how novel.


but they 'are' funny and rather well done .... if you understand the difference between satire and reality.

Last edited by cgta1967; 08-22-2013 at 04:27 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 591
# 148
08-22-2013, 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam3s1701 View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTfBH-XFdSc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B22Uy7SBe4

I will just leave these here to explain WHY new trek is crap

Thanks
**yawn again


Not getting enough attention in the thread you made with these, ey? Here's a list of classic Trek for you:

Spock's Brain
The Way to Eden
Turnabout Intruder
Star Trek V
Generations
Insurrection
Nemesis
Sub Rosa
Shades of Gray

Enjoy yourself.

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I'm still Romulus_Prime. Joined STO in January 2010.

Last edited by kain9prime; 08-22-2013 at 04:45 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 133
# 149
08-22-2013, 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgta1967 View Post
not related to your post at all, I just wanted to point something I noticed that this statement made me remember:

.

I watched Quinto's Spock and I also just got done re-watching Spock on the original series via netfix.

Zackary did very very well in emulating the original Spock, he even got Nimoy's 'walk' very close ( it hit me hard when Nimoy was walking out of the doorway on an episode and I thought to myself "oh my gawd, they even walk the same too !!" ).

The new movies did a very good homage to the original series actors in this aspect ... there were many moments in the two recent movies where I physically laughed aloud because I caught on to their very well played ( and well thought out and practiced ) homages.

Pine got 'Shatner Kirks' mannerisms down good too I thought.



ok...back to the thread.,
Yes, that was probably poor phrasing on my part or at least I should have expanded on it. What I meant "not Nimoy's Spock" is due to the events of the Narada coming through and wreaking havoc with the timeline, Quinto Spock's actions, experiences are now turned on end compared to Nimoy's Spock. So he'll have these emotional outbursts and other things that we would never have seen with Nimoy's Spock. I'll also add to your post that Karl Urban does a damn good McCoy as well. I remember in the first movie thinking I was looking at a young Deforrest Kelley. All the new characters actually do good jobs with their characters. Only one that I think may be a little over the top is Checkov. His russian accent seems more forced that Koenig's.
"There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people."-Commander William Adama
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,197
# 150
08-22-2013, 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pegasuscic View Post
....Yes, that was probably poor phrasing on my part .....
not at all, it just sparked something in my head that I thought I'd share. that's why I said it wasn't related to your post at all


Quote:
Originally Posted by pegasuscic View Post
Only one that I think may be a little over the top is Checkov. His russian accent seems more forced that Koenig's.
heh... you made me wonder more about him as an actor, so I looked him up .... lol...it seems Anton Yelchin is a Russian-american immigrant born in Leningrad heh.
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