Lieutenant
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 33
Hi all

First of all, here's my current layout on my Mirror Vor'cha: http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?...aengineer_4549

Now, I finally farmed 4 Fleet Ship Modules so I can get myself a fleet vessel. Any advice on which one I should go for would be appreciated!

My playstyle is a mix between tanky and DPS and I'd like to be able to switch between the two styles at some point by simply switching some modules (+/- threat) and maybe weapons (dual heavy cannons/turrets).

My main question is, how do you like my build and what would you improve and why?

Cheers

ha99ard
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 844
# 2
08-23-2013, 10:40 AM
One phrase

"Fleet Tor'kaht"

Enough said about that

Build looks aloud enough when you buy the Tor'kaht strap on some DHC keep the romulan torpedo strap on some of the new armor plus turn consoles and away you go it

Until all the romulan power creep and the monbush it was the best cruiser in game it's still is one of the best but it is the Klingons superior option by far
----=====This is my opinion you don't have to listen and no one else has to read them these "OPINIONS" are based on my exploits and my learning other people will have their opinions and that's fine just don't knock my way of doing things thanks=====----
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,261
# 3
08-23-2013, 11:53 AM
Ship equipment wise, OP, I cannot find a fault. It's a straightforward build, beamboat build with the plasma flavor.

BOFF wise is a bit inefficient, this is primarily for PVE.

Firstly, I see you have pairs of Engineering Team 1, Emergency Power to Shields 2, Emergency Power to Shields 3.

I have to ask, what is your main thing with this build & cruiser? Because with that in mind, you then focus on which set of the Emergency Power skills you will have constantly cycling.

Example: You want heavy the highest shield power pumping? Tough defenses?

ENGINEERING
- Have Emergency Power to Shields 3 x2, both constantly cycling
- Have Emergency Power to Weapons2 - You will get opportunities to plug in EPTW2 for higher punching power when you need it, even EPTS3 cycling all the time
- Have Engineering Team 2 for hull repairs. Also, it can be used to help someone else out, but a possibility is
- Have Emergnecy Power to Aux1 - To boost your Aux Power on occasions where you really need it to strengthen your various BOFF skills that are based off it. Hazard Emitters, Polarized Hull, Transfer Shield Strength, and yes, even your Eject Warp Plasma 3... Wha?!? Because Emergency Power to Aux not only boosts your Aux Power, it also Particle Generators skill, which is affects your DOTs via Eject Warp Plasma and just as importantly, the large plasma dot ability from your Romulan Singularity Harness 3 piece bonus.
- Have Emergency Power to Engines 1 - A filler skill, but if you want the speed boost in combat and save your Evasive Maneuvers, pop this skill and move.
- Keep your Eject Warp Plasma 3 - I personally don't favor EWP and would normally have ASIF3 or DEM3 in there, but I do acknowledge the usefulness of this ability in fixing targets and landing a plasma hull burn on them. Just be sure to pop EPTA1 before you land this. Another alternate is RSP3 for emergency "Oh noes my shields are going down even with EPTS3!" and you need your shields back up, ASAP, like, right now. RSP somewhere in your build in a cruiser is a big deal in PVP, but even in PVE, there will be times when the pressure is too much even for the likes of EPTS3 with Transfer Shield Strength. Those are rare, but do exist. Or, if you want to be able to help someone else out, Extend Shields 3.

TACTICAL - For most parts, your dual Tactical Team is a very safe bet and will guarantee very fast shield distribution at all times. But Engineer Team conflicts with it. If you deem the benefits of ET outweigh TT, then I suggest this alternate set of skills.
- Beam Fire At Will 1 or Beam Overload 1 or High Yield Torpedo 1 - BFAW1 for hitting multiple targets, Beam Overload 1 for pounding a single target, and it would help to have EPTW running before hitting either of these. Choosing HYT1 makes your 3 torps from the Romulan Plasma Torpedo hit harder. You went through the trouble for having the Rep and spending the Rep to get those Romulan Plasma Torps... BOOST those suckers!
- Attack Pattern Beta 1 or Delta 1 - APB1 lands a nice debuff on anything you hit, and everyone on your team benefits, including yourself. Very nice skill in PVE with a very short cooldown. Attack Pattern Delta 1 on the other hand is very defensive. Boosts resists to whomever you throw this on, yourself or a buddy. It lands a nice resist, but more importantly, anything shooting at that target lands a constantly applying debuff (stronger than APB's resist debuff of equal tiers). Since you put a +threat console in there, and I imagine you put points into Threat Generation, this skill is a big deal if you are getting stuff to focus on you. Of significant note related to this, there is a DOFF to increase threat generation from APD. If going with threat generation and APD, then I suggest having BFAW1 to grab everyone's attention around you.

SCIENCE - No nonsense, I wouldn't change anything.

Alternate Ship Equipment:

Borg 2 piece + Your favorite shield is a popular compromise.

If you want an alternate deal and still take advantage of enhancing your plasma dots and your plasma torpedoes, I suggest having the Reman Deflector and Engines. It enhances your Particle Generators skill and improves upon your specific torpedoes.

Fleet Vessel recommendation:

You'll find the Fleet Vor'Cha/Torkhat will be frequently posted as a recommendation. It's a fine ship, a TAC oriented version, and it handles beautifully.

If you really like the Vor'Cha Retrofit / Mirror Vor'Cha setup, I'd recommend to take a look at the Fleet K'T'Inga. The ship is a traditional Engineering heavy ship. And it is the smoothest flying Cruiser / Battlecruiser in the game.

The Fleet Negh'Var is another similar choice of a ENG heavy ship. It's less maneuverable than the Vor'Cha and K'T'Inga, but it has stronger hulls and a Universal ENS slot.

Last edited by warmaker001b; 08-23-2013 at 02:59 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 146
# 4
08-23-2013, 05:11 PM
Maybe this thread on tank ships can help you make up your own mind.

If you have a fleet ship in mind rather than a Lobi ship or a C-store ship, the Tor'Kaht stands out for good reasons. In a world where escorts can do amazing damages, a good tank will need a lot of fire power to keep agro. The Tor'Kaht is arguably the best such ship, at least one of very best, even if you compare it with the Bortasq (C-store) or the Monbosh (Lobi).

If you focus exclusively on PvE, an Engineer captain can even dispense with the Cmd engineer slot and fly on a Jem'Hadar Heavy Escort Carrier (or even a Krenn) and tank just as well as a battle cruiser. If PvP is a frequent activity for you, then you'll want that celebrated Extend Shield 3 on the Cmd engineer slot, and that brings you back to the Tor'Kaht or to the Bortasq.

The previous contribution gives a nice example of how you make sure that your tanking ability is put to good use. "The Dragon", i.e. cycling EPtS (and EPtW, most of the time) is certainly the cruiser's basics. Once you master that routine, give a try to an Aux2Batt build, a funny style to learn, very effective (but by no means obligatory as some claim). These two standard ways of playing a cruiser are detailled elsewhere on this forum several times. Be careful, you're short on Engineer slots if you run Aux2Batt on a Tor'Kaht, but it's playable and effective.

In both cases, I argue in favour of Reverse Shield Polarity more forcefully than my predecessor. PvE or PvP, "Dragon" or Aux2Batt, remember that RSP saves your life, use it. On your Lt-Cmd tactical officer (let's assume you fly a Tor'Kaht ), you will enjoy Tactical Team 1, Beam Fire At Will and an attack pattern (test and pick up whichever you like best). Since you'll have a second tactical officer, entrust him with a Torpedo boost if you use torpedoes (again, it's your call between Torpedo Spread and Torpedo High Yield ; you will probably switch depending on the mission) and another attack pattern (or a second tactical team if you choose the "Dragon" approach). If you don't use torpedoes, a redundant copy of Tactical Team or Beam Fire at Will makes sense (and both can actually be important in the "Dragon").

Let me advise you against the use of Engineering Team. Engineering Team is a great skill, but it interferes with two other great skills, namely Tactical Team and Science Team. Tactical Team is the best defensive ability, Science Team removes all debuffs. There are acceptable alternatives to Engineering Team : Auxilliary to Structural Integrity Field (if you run a "Dragon" build) or Hazard Emitters (always have one ; its cooldown is vastly reduced if you run the "Aux2Batt" build). It's a pity to give up a good skill, but you will draw more benefits from constantly keeping Tactical Team up. Alternatives to Engineering Team have a very nice synergy with Emergency Power to Auxilliary (EPtA), a rightfully praised skill that every tank can enjoy.

Let's end with two things you may already know if you play an engineer captain for quite some time. Energy management is a key to any ship, all the more so for cruisers/tanks. Also, don't forget to use your captain abilities often.
Have fun !
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,203
# 5
08-23-2013, 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amincielbleu View Post
Be careful, you're short on Engineer slots if you run Aux2Batt on a Tor'Kaht, but it's playable and effective.
You're not short on engineer slots for aux2batt. There's a universal LT slot on the Tor'Kaht. Nothing says you can't put a 3rd engineering boff there (I do it on my Fleet Regent and the only thing I miss is the hazard emitters, but even so I find a rarely need it even when doing eSTFs).

Quote:
Let me advise you against the use of Engineering Team. Engineering Team is a great skill, but it interferes with two other great skills, namely Tactical Team and Science Team. Tactical Team is the best defensive ability, Science Team removes all debuffs.
No, science team only removes some debuffs. Engineering team removes other debuffs. Both are useful in their own way, however in my experience I like having ET1 than ST1 if I had to choose.

Quote:
There are acceptable alternatives to Engineering Team : Auxilliary to Structural Integrity Field (if you run a "Dragon" build) or Hazard Emitters (always have one ; its cooldown is vastly reduced if you run the "Aux2Batt" build). It's a pity to give up a good skill, but you will draw more benefits from constantly keeping Tactical Team up. Alternatives to Engineering Team have a very nice synergy with Emergency Power to Auxilliary (EPtA), a rightfully praised skill that every tank can enjoy.
I would say engineering team is the better heal than aux2SIF, due to the ability to cleanse the ship of debuffs like viral matrix and subsystem disablers. Its heal is also not aux dependent. If you're running an aux2batt build, that is an important factor for consideration. Yes, it conflicts with the other Team abilities, but that's not a huge problem. It just means you shouldn't put a Team ability on a keybind and instead manually activate when you need to rather than automatically.

Quote:
Have fun !
On this, we agree.
Lieutenant
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 33
# 6
08-24-2013, 02:28 AM
First of all, thank you for all your replies, you've given me a lot to think about and try out. Right now, I really think the Tor'Kaht is the way to go for me and I've had my eye on it for quite a while. I love the idea of being able to dish out good damage for a chance to win some good loot in eSTFs as well as tank content by swapping some of my gear/boffs. I personally prefer the beam playstyle over the DHC playstyle, but we'll see, maybe I can get into it.

Emergency Power to Aux1 sounds like a great idea, I hadn't considered its usefulness for warp plasma and the plasma dot ability from the Singularity Harness. As I'll be switching to the Tor'Kaht shortly, I'll have to reconsider some boff layouts anyways. I might even give the Aux2Batt a go (by the way, if I get a plasmonic leech, wouldn't that pretty much negate the need for Aux2Batt?).

So, I might post again in the near future and let you know or ask more questions about my Tor'Kaht

And trust me, I will have fun!

Qapla'
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 146
# 7
08-24-2013, 05:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stofsk View Post
You're not short on engineer slots for aux2batt. There's a universal LT slot on the Tor'Kaht. Nothing says you can't put a 3rd engineering boff there (I do it on my Fleet Regent and the only thing I miss is the hazard emitters, but even so I find a rarely need it even when doing eSTFs).
No hazard emitters ? *swallows* Gutsy, gutsy...
This makes me reconsider my first advice, taking the following into account...
Quote:
Originally Posted by stofsk View Post
I would say engineering team is the better heal than aux2SIF, [...]Yes, it conflicts with the other Team abilities, but that's not a huge problem.
From the same observation (ET is better than Aux2SIF but conflicts with TT), I have the exact inverse impression (it seems an problem to me), so it means that both ways are playable. And this echoes well your first answer ! Instead of two families of builds, there are actually three !

For a Tor'Kaht with beams (same equipment, but not the same Duty Officers, of course):

"Dragon" :
Tactical 3+2, two tactical teams, two fire at will, one attack pattern
Engineering 4+1, two EPtS, EPtW, RSP and your choice among Aux2SIF (engineering team ?), one more EPtW, EPtE or EPtA.
Science 2, Hazard Emitter, Transfer Shield Strength
(you really need two tactical teams in the "Dragon" setup, but I guess you can test Engineering Team as your 5th engineering ability nonetheless ; I don't know if Stofsk had this in mind, I haven't tested it personnally)

"Aux2Batt with Engineering Team"
Tactical 3+2, tactical team, fire at will, torpedo boost if applicable, the rest attack patterns
Engineering 4+2+1, EPtS, EPtW, 2 Aux2Batt, RSP, ET, same choice left as above
no science (your shields are safe because of EPtS/RSP on a reduced cooldown and your hull is safe thanks to ET)

"Aux2Batt with science abilities"
Tactical 3+2, same as above
Engineering 4+1, EPtS, 2 Aux2Batt, RSP, EPtW or (my preference) EPtA
Science 2, Hazard Emitters, either Science Team or Transfer Shield Strength


Plasmonic Leech will work well in all three cases. It won't completely negate the downside of Aux2Batt, but it will for sure mitigate it, especially if you have a good Power Transfer Rate. Experiment with the timing of your various skills, when to use EPtA (not just after Aux2Batt, as you will see), when to use Hazard Emitters (Aux must be high),...

There is a big catch when you use Plasmonic Leech with Aux2Batt : sometimes your Aux power drops to 0 and this blocks some abilities completely ! It's not a major nuisance, but you have to practice a little to avoid surprises. It's a play style that you don't learn overnight. The first experience is often "waow this is great, look at my cooldowns !", then you see the dark side of it, and finally you overcome the problems and reap the full benefits.
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