Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,145
# 21
08-29-2013, 06:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wombat140 View Post
Speaking of which, don't assume automatically that it's not worth making combat optional in a KDF mission. Remember, *not all KDF captains are Klingons*.
Good point you give here. This brings me to the foundry mission I posted a review of last night (survival must be earned). Couple of the confrontations were forced upon you (as a mission task), but it didn't felt forced. There was a marvelous balance going on. And that is something I (honestly) seldomly see..

Combat is fun, but it's over as soon as it feels like a grind.
^^ I am Stoutes, and I approve of my message ^^
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 10,499
# 22
08-29-2013, 07:54 AM
Yeah, my KDf guy is an Orion Marauder. He doesn't bother with silly things like fighting for honor or glory. He's in it for the money.
HAIL HYDRA!
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I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
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Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 375
# 23
08-29-2013, 11:27 AM
Now that is an interesting point, how do you write a narrative when your protagonist can have multiple very different motivations? Different response options only do so far in a linear narrative.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,002
# 24
08-29-2013, 05:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by isthisscience View Post
Now that is an interesting point, how do you write a narrative when your protagonist can have multiple very different motivations? Different response options only do so far in a linear narrative.
You can either stay neutral, or give a choice. In my last mission, the player have the choice to kill the bad guy, or capture him. It's not a big thing but it's enough IMO.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 10,499
# 25
08-29-2013, 05:33 PM
I tend to take a rather neutral approach, but branching dialogue is fun to write.
HAIL HYDRA!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Show Archon and Borticus how much you would like to see new Doff races!
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 375
# 26
08-29-2013, 10:44 PM
But it is the early plot that is the problem. Lets say early on you find yourself in a no-win kind of situation. A Klingon would not run but rather fight - even refusing to be captured. Anyone else might run and an Orion might not be much interested in getting into the fight to begin with. If you put into the plot that you run away, it makes it near impossible to write it as a believable Klingon. If you fight to the bitter end in a glorious blaze, doesn't sound much like an Orion. You can give all the choices in the text you want, and all the choices at the end you want, but you still have the rest of the plot to deal with. The only way around is to make the plot fit all of them which just ends up giving you the lowest common denominator in terms of interesting-ness.

There should perhaps be species-combatibility tags in the same way some people put 'Romulan Friendly'. Pehaps 'Gorn only', 'Klingon focused', 'warning: contains cowardice'...
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,002
# 27
08-30-2013, 04:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by isthisscience View Post
But it is the early plot that is the problem. Lets say early on you find yourself in a no-win kind of situation. A Klingon would not run but rather fight - even refusing to be captured. Anyone else might run and an Orion might not be much interested in getting into the fight to begin with. If you put into the plot that you run away, it makes it near impossible to write it as a believable Klingon. If you fight to the bitter end in a glorious blaze, doesn't sound much like an Orion. You can give all the choices in the text you want, and all the choices at the end you want, but you still have the rest of the plot to deal with. The only way around is to make the plot fit all of them which just ends up giving you the lowest common denominator in terms of interesting-ness.

There should perhaps be species-combatibility tags in the same way some people put 'Romulan Friendly'. Pehaps 'Gorn only', 'Klingon focused', 'warning: contains cowardice'...
That's up to the author to make sure no matter if it's played by a Klingon or an Orion it feel OK.
For example, do you remember the story of the guy who want to stay and fight the wind in the Kahless story ? He stays all night to fight the wind, and die a meaningless death. Kahless call him a fool. Dying during a fight is Klingon, dying a useless death is not.
You can use it in the situation you give, an Orion would run away because he is Orion, but a Klingon would retreat because it would be an useless death. To be sure the player understand it, have a BOFF tell him they can't win it, and it's useless to stay. You can even add a branching conversation, the player answering he want to die fighting (or agree to leave), and if he say so, talk about the Kahless story.
That way, no matter how he feel about it, you're sure fleeing is the right choice to do.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 10,499
# 28
08-30-2013, 06:52 AM
Yeah there's a difference between bravery and stupidity, and some klingons don't know the difference but most do.
HAIL HYDRA!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Show Archon and Borticus how much you would like to see new Doff races!
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 375
# 29
08-30-2013, 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
Yeah there's a difference between bravery and stupidity, and some klingons don't know the difference but most do.
*cough* Blood Oath *cough*
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 977
# 30
08-30-2013, 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by isthisscience View Post
But it is the early plot that is the problem. Lets say early on you find yourself in a no-win kind of situation. A Klingon would not run but rather fight - even refusing to be captured. Anyone else might run and an Orion might not be much interested in getting into the fight to begin with. If you put into the plot that you run away, it makes it near impossible to write it as a believable Klingon. If you fight to the bitter end in a glorious blaze, doesn't sound much like an Orion. You can give all the choices in the text you want, and all the choices at the end you want, but you still have the rest of the plot to deal with. The only way around is to make the plot fit all of them which just ends up giving you the lowest common denominator in terms of interesting-ness.

There should perhaps be species-combatibility tags in the same way some people put 'Romulan Friendly'. Pehaps 'Gorn only', 'Klingon focused', 'warning: contains cowardice'...
I think what we could really use is a logic system in the foundry to cause certain things to trigger based on player species, and training and for Boffs too

Enabling both player optionals like in cryptic missions, and being able to flag dialogue as Vulcan only for example

a simple boolean logic / algebra system could handle this ( granted we as authers would need to learn it a bit)

combine this with branching ( more difficult but desired) and we could create some amazing story boards

During this Foundry Bonus Weekend, don't just choose the shortest missions, choose to play the best missions. Have more fun, get more marks!

List of great missions: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=286621
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