Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,425
# 111
09-07-2013, 07:07 PM
Exactly what other players have been saying. Science is completely gimped now and except for healing has no role in the game. 3 minutes is a joke. I can decimate 10 tholian ships in azure with aoe torpedoes and mines in under 90 secs. I am a tac who uses GW and singularity jump to trap those ships. What harm is there in allowing science vessels to do half of what I can do in twice the time.

Stop being slaves to us escort jockeys and give science a chance. I am sure it will lead to lots of sales ... Myself included. Heck I am happy if you restrict this to gw3 so tac can't have access to it.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,425
# 112
09-07-2013, 07:10 PM
I wouldn't mind the nerfed damage too much, since tacs in sci ships would be able to spec the same way and use GW with far more damage than a Sci could- probably enough to be OP, actually.

All I want is for the hold to be good. At least then it would fulfil its primary purpose.
Take it easy!

Ishmael@scurry5: A Nibbling Sci
"Squeak?"
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,551
# 113
09-07-2013, 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by splitboy View Post
I am not certain if reducing GW1 effect below the actual state, and forcing either high skill and consol usuage onto it ontop would help SCi in the Grand scheme.

SCi already is overloaded with hight skillcosts and need of slotting several consols just to make a subset of powers potent.

Compare it to ENG powers where this is just limited if at all the case and if you go to TAC not at all.

Nerfing GW1 would only result in it to be another useless SCi power and result would be another underused power ingame because simple TAC powers perform way better then this without any drawbacks.

At some Point there has to be drawn a line that clearly says what is expected of SCi powers to perform and compare to ENG and TAC.
As of now the underlying base for a GW2 or GW3 has less debuff potential then a Escort or TAC heavy BOff Station ship making the idea of a debuffer as what SCi vessel where advertised in the past just not true
I agree with this fully. I'd for example would love to know how flow caps and power insulators ended up costing different skill points when one affects the other on a 1 to 1 basis.

For tacs you can just skip putting anything into captain level skills unless you love stealthiness or being targeted at.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,628
# 114
09-07-2013, 07:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by splitboy View Post
I am not certain if reducing GW1 effect below the actual state, and forcing either high skill and consol usuage ontop of it would help SCi in the Grand scheme.
More like its taking Sci to the back of the barn and put a bullet in its head, this is what overspecialization will achieve because no other class is required to do that.
Former Star Trek Online Player
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,859
# 115
09-07-2013, 07:20 PM
Tacs have to specialize heavily in weapon skills *and* load up on Tac consoles and universal consoles to do top damage. I dont see the difference.

Last edited by ursusmorologus; 09-07-2013 at 07:23 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,425
# 116
09-07-2013, 07:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursusmorologus View Post
Tacs have to specialize heavily in weapon skills *and* load up on Tac consoles and universal consoles to do top damage. I dont see the difference.
What exactly do science specialized builds do again ...

1. Cc ... Nope
2. Debuffs ... Nah
3. Damage ... No way


4. Heals ... Yes


They are fine for premises but totally useless otherwise. Crap-tic fails epically again.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 96
# 117
09-07-2013, 07:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursusmorologus View Post
Tacs have to specialize heavily in weapon skills *and* load up on Tac consoles and universal consoles to do top damage. I dont see the difference.
ENG and SCi do the same those Points are spend no matter what class or what ship you in.
Same with the consols they are equiped no matter if you fly a Cruiser, SCi-Vessel or Scort.

It is not that you have a choice without gimping you even further.

The only saving grace to it is that most of the TAC skills you need ecxept the ones modifying Crit dmaage are at the lower end off the skill tree so costing less where SCi skills are all over the place.

result is you have to invest in the same skills as everyone else and ontop of that into another set of high cost skills that no one ecxept a SCi Station heavy ship would consider to use in any greater quantity.

It's double taxing the skillpoints if you want to fly with Magic.
And still the results are less.

Last edited by splitboy; 09-07-2013 at 08:06 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,628
# 118
09-07-2013, 07:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursusmorologus View Post
Tacs have to specialize heavily in weapon skills *and* load up on Tac consoles and universal consoles to do top damage. I dont see the difference.
Are you joking?

Tacs have the easier way to specialize, its not even funny ... all Tactical except Stealth and Threat Control unless you are in PvP were you can put points in Threat Control, the only other skill they might invest points in is Sensors with the typical resists skills, what left is what ship and gear they are using it ... thats it.

Lets not compare then to Scis that have then all over the place and Engs that are the same.
Former Star Trek Online Player

Last edited by f2pdrakron; 09-07-2013 at 07:54 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,859
# 119
09-07-2013, 08:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by splitboy View Post
ENG and SCi do the same those Points are spend no matter what class or what ship you in.
That's not true at all. You may think you're entitled to do full weapon damage and all sci abilities at the same time but you arent. The minimum for sci is Maneuvers (def) and Targeting (acc), everything else in the top two rows are optional.

You can make a great drain ship that only uses the polaron/tetryon procs and doesnt have any points in damage or crit chance skills.

Simple choice really, you can do some weapon damage and some sci, or you can do no weapon damage and a lot of sci, you're not entitled to all of it.

Sci ships have limited weapon mounts precisely because they arent supposed to do a lot of weapon damage... You can overcome, to an extent, doesnt mean you're entitled to it.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 96
# 120
09-07-2013, 08:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursusmorologus View Post
That's not true at all. You may think you're entitled to do full weapon damage and all sci abilities at the same time but you arent. The minimum for sci is Maneuvers (def) and Targeting (acc), everything else in the top two rows are optional.

You can make a great drain ship that only uses the polaron/tetryon procs and doesnt have any points in damage or crit chance skills.

Simple choice really, you can do some weapon damage and some sci, or you can do no weapon damage and a lot of sci, you're not entitled to all of it.

Sci ships have limited weapon mounts precisely because they arent supposed to do a lot of weapon damage... You can overcome, to an extent, doesnt mean you're entitled to it.

Ofcourse you can do this and it would do great in a perfect world or in a premade.

And i already see where this shall lead if we allow it any further and i rather don't want it to derail it that far.

As a matter of facti am pretty happy that still all involved Keep the conversation civil and down to facts.

SCi powers have to work on there own as should SCi Vessel.

Other game have warrior, Mages, Wizards, Kleriks, Hunter, Rouges, Druids, Monks and Healing Priests.

Why should it be that all should be resembled in STO by a Scort Captain but only the SCi Vessel fill the healing Priest?

Anyway i wont respond anyfurther to this like i already stated i rather want to have this post stay closer to the OP then to have it to much derailed as the matter is to importend to me.

Either start new or Point to a existing post that is discussing the Topic.
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