Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,167
# 261
09-10-2013, 12:05 PM
Wow, this topic went off the rails. No wonder the developers find it pointless posting here.

To make this thread more valid again and moving away from e-peen stroking and chest thumping on ALL sides, i don't think anyone has been defending double, treble, multi vape taps. What i have been seeing in this thread in summary is the following:

There are things in the game which are far worse, yet those things are left unchecked?!?!?
Scramble DOFFS
Aux to Batt powered EMP bursts
etc. etc.

Nerfing the "vape tap" isn't a bad thing at all.

Doing the "nerf" in isolation without addressing the core issues of why such builds became necessary is a major issue. ResA / ResB shields being one of those points ruling out suppression damage.

Any fleet worth it's salt, knows that if they don't adapt to the current meta game, they will drop off rapidly. That being said, once the double tap disappears, don't assume that other fleets who "abuse" double taps are incapable of finding other ways of achieving the same outcome.

I'm sure the same people complaining about the double taps now will be complaining about another build soon because it moved away from the classical "I don't wanna loose my 4 dual heavy cannons up front so other builds must be borked" build.

Everybody dies in this game - No one is Godly in PvP and doesn't die.

Play Tyler Durden and you'll soon learn that. Funny how some so called top players don't want to participate and instead want to just smash pugs. Might "tarnish" their reputation if they die
(Its a challenge and an advertise in disguise to play in Tyler Durden, not a jab )
aka NazHuggyBear2

"No, there is no real problem with P2W in STO. Obviously, if you fight against someone with an equal level of skill in the game, better equipment will give you an edge. But usually, it is the skill level that determines the outcome, not the P2W." - Sprinkles
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,542
# 262
09-10-2013, 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naz4 View Post
Any fleet worth it's salt, knows that if they don't adapt to the current meta game, they will drop off rapidly. That being said, once the double tap disappears, don't assume that other fleets who "abuse" double taps are incapable of finding other ways of achieving the same outcome.
That's kind of part of the complaint.

This doesn't actually fix anything, does it? For those folks that are complaining about getting popped so fast...this isn't going to stop that.

C'mon, how many folks out there pop before you've even finished that 2-4s run? It's like wtf?

Yes, it's a different world in the Premade World...but this change, c'mon - it reeks of the "it's too hard" garbage that's ruining the game left, right, and center.

Cryptic does something like this...at the same time they're getting ready to "sell" what's basically a battle cloaking Moebius that can use Rom BOFFs...? Seriously?

Cryptic is doing this - after adding how many things to make this that much easier and that much more effective? Hrmmm, they made their money off of it - sales were diminishing - let's nerf it in preparation for the next thing they're going to support for a period of time.

Seriously, sometimes when I log in - it reminds me of the older brother slapping the younger brother with the younger brother's hand while saying, "Stop hitting yourself." - I'm wondering if maybe I didn't fall down at some point and incur brain damage to keep doing this...
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 998
# 263
09-10-2013, 12:58 PM
New topic, nerf speed tanks, just to piss ppl off.
Hi, my name is: Elim Garak, Former Cardassian Oppressor

LTS, here since...when did this game launch again?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 594
# 264
09-10-2013, 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trhrangerxml View Post
New topic, nerf speed tanks, just to piss ppl off.
Well they can do what they want in their fail corvette builds, running around but dont do enough damage
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
/channel_join Tyler Durden for Organised Balanced PVP matches
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 265
# 265
09-10-2013, 01:16 PM
I didn't expect such a strong reaction from you Minimax, after all this is just a game (a phrase u have heard million times, I presume). Its a pitty that your setup got screwed in process of removing what is incredibly abused in this game. I'm sure as u adapted after trico nerf, u will find yourself in some new setup.

To wanna be pvp police officer, for whom, no one gives a dam, I personally wont play TD more cos of your involvement in it, which I find is a pathetic attempt to be some infulent person in this game. Which is shame, its a good idea. Also, u shouldn't speak about excuses, because as I remember, elite disruptors are too powerful, and that's why they beat us! MoooM!

I was about to make a joke about x nooblet, but I think that would hurt his feelings. Anyways, we know each other long time.

Double shield, Dolce! <3
________________________________________________
[Combat (Self)] Your Ramming Speed III deals 112038 Kinetic Damage(Critical) to Ugop.
[Combat (Self)] Your Isometric Charge deals 78943 (70343) Electrical Damage(Critical) to Trinity.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 998
# 266
09-10-2013, 01:16 PM
Just chain EptE with EptX DOFFs, solvers power problems, add dual Aux2Batt in a Temporal Destroyer with Elachi weapons on BFAW or BO while running 95/15/75/15 and enjoy your new troll boat.
Hi, my name is: Elim Garak, Former Cardassian Oppressor

LTS, here since...when did this game launch again?
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,475
# 267
09-10-2013, 01:22 PM
Off topic I know... but everyone is welcome in TD... and no one is in charge of anything no matter what they say... out side of the games they may be creating.

The TD fight club isn't about your fleets or your egos... start matches if you like the idea. Join matches if you like the idea... Leave the fleet / forum / opvp girly fighting crap there.

Enjoy slapping at each other for awhile and that's that. If you really don't like someone that much what ever join matches when there not around or something.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 470
# 268
09-10-2013, 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivantomdisplay View Post

I was about to make a joke about x nooblet, but I think that would hurt his feelings. Anyways, we know each other long time.

Double shield, Dolce! <3
Why would such hurt my feelings? I didn't exploit that bug.

Hai leia skywalker...
-X-/Pandas - Pheo
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 459
# 269
09-10-2013, 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
That's kind of part of the complaint.

This doesn't actually fix anything, does it?
Double-tap is bad gameplay - period, end of story. It's a workaround for a shared cooldown that was always supposed to prevent exactly what's happening. It fixes a lot of things about this small problem - but the point that many are making (and that I agree with) is that this fix is just a drop in the moderately large bucket in the grand scheme of unwinding and overhauling combat math to make things feel fair for both aggressors and defenders, and make combat between evenly matched adversaries take a more reasonable amount of time. The trick to any of these changes is that our PvE combat is in a pretty good place - people can have a lot of fun flying just about any ship, and can contribute meaningfully to queued events and basically have a blast. Therefore, any change to combat math that also affects PvE is extremely high risk - so the knobs we have to balance and tweak PvP pacing are limited to those that don't have unintended side effects.

It's not an impossible job - it just requires a lot of care and time investment. If things are broken or things are really bad gameplay, it's easy to justify stepping in and fixing something immediately. If things aren't either of the above but are still less fun or less engaging than they could be, we obviously want to fix them - it just takes more work and more time to get the fix right and minimize any external side effects of that fix.

That's a bit of a ramble, but I know you guys like insight into why we change things we choose to change and how we make the game, so hopefully it interests you/makes sense to you. Please try to stay positive and constructive in responses - I'm happy to entertain discussions and talk about things openly, but if you start flaming or posting off-topic things, it's really hard to justify responding to something like that.
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 594
# 270
09-10-2013, 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adjudicatorhawk View Post

That's a bit of a ramble, but I know you guys like insight into why we change things we choose to change and how we make the game, so hopefully it interests you/makes sense to you. Please try to stay positive and constructive in responses - I'm happy to entertain discussions and talk about things openly, but if you start flaming or posting off-topic things, it's really hard to justify responding to something like that.
Thanks Hawk for your comments, I only hope you seriously consider the changes and why people changed to double tapping. Of course there's the balanced to be made not to make PVE unplayable, which is understandable.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
/channel_join Tyler Durden for Organised Balanced PVP matches
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