Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 642
# 171
09-05-2013, 09:48 AM
Originally Posted by gypsyblade View Post
^I suggest this same thing a few weeks ago, got zero response from the Dev team.
This is why I have started playing Star Wars, at least when you buy something from them, it stays the same. You always know what you get, and not have to worry about nerfed up improvements once the cash has been laid down!!!
Hey Dev's, how about some warning in the item descriptions like, "this is a fun item, but its going to suck after next months patch, HA-HA! -The Dev's"

"300% yeah right, have you used them lately!?"
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 467
# 172
09-08-2013, 03:19 PM
Originally Posted by maddog0000doom View Post
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~BranFlakes
Got time to edit people's posts...

But none to have any of the devs respond.... Good Job Bran... this is why people love you.

Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 374
# 173
09-08-2013, 04:42 PM
Originally Posted by breadandcircuses View Post
Funny, this sounds like you are talking about Tour the Galaxy, if you change "Contraband" to "EC"... ultimately, maybe it would be a good idea to allocate more payroll hours to the folks working on bugfixes and less to the folks that keep trying to make the game inconvenient. None of the quality of life "fixes" over the past few months have been game-breaking, but they certainly don't make the game better either. Rather the opposite, really.

Remember, it's a game. Stop trying to make it less fun and I might feel more inclined to spend money. That Lifetime Subscription Sale really ought to be posted after you do something good, by the way, rather than after mail, exchange, Tour, and Slaver "fixes", lol. Just saying...
Originally Posted by saekiith View Post
And this is the only problem that persisted...
Too much "free" Dilithium... less purchases in Zen... less Money for Perfect World... "Problems needs to be eradicated"... simple as that
Originally Posted by newromulan1 View Post
They are cutting back on CB for 2 reasons:

KDF players were making too much EC

There was to low a price on CB ($35k) meaning too many people were able to use it to turn into dilithium

This is all part of the plan to lower dilithium in game and lower EC - forcing players to buy more Zen.

It's all working as intended.

I had the oddy 3 pack $50 so that I got the 2x slipstream for the tour - and I bet a lot of others did so as well - should we all get refunds now that they nerfed that?

It is what it is - no-one is getting refunds and they are not going to change anything back - just be glad you got what you got for so long farming the KDF.
Originally Posted by deadspacex64 View Post
he's right though, every game change has been towards the goal of less *free* dilithium and ec income and more towards CS sales/zen <>dil conversion. starbases, doffs, starbase additions, fleet equips, specialized weapons, crafting, all dilithium sinks. buy doff packs, sell for ec. you can still grind away to get the same...but that's not fun nor fast. which is the whole strat. grind or buy.

you're a blind self deluded fool if you can't see that trend.

the nerf to a lackluster unit that only had one saving grace which was the chance to steal contra...they might as well remove slavers entirely. the investment for advanced/elites is no longer worth the return.
Exactly x4.
What they don't realize is that they are turning off a large portion of the players; and even if they squeeze a few extra real dollars or pounds out of a few players, there are those who intentionally do the opposite as a result of being squeezed. -Myself being one of them.

I could overlook this is they would dedicate an equal amount of time to fixing bugs, but instead we get more squeeze & more bugs.

Edit: Oh... and BTW... does anyone else find it odd that NoP started offering "Free KDF invite for elite pets!" about a week before this nerf? I can't help but feel trolled for buying Elite Slavers. If so, --hats off-- to you Sirs (or Devs, or whoever you are) for a troll well done. If I actually cared about the dil or fleet creds I might be upset.

If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting. ~thlaylierah
So realistically, you only need to have the exact number of doffs that you need. ~leadme2kirk

Last edited by omegashinzon; 09-09-2013 at 09:01 AM.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 403
# 174
09-09-2013, 01:45 AM
Originally Posted by sunseahl View Post
Got time to edit people's posts...

But none to have any of the devs respond.... Good Job Bran... this is why people love you.

Careful,he doesn't like people who wont fall in line...

Join date July 2012 ... My feckin arse ( Feb 2010 )
"The great thing about the internet is its leveling effect; online all opinions are equally WORTHLESS." <------> Grant Morrison
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 334
# 175
09-09-2013, 09:03 AM
Count me among the disgruntled Adv. Slaver owners. I get zippity-do-da with em. Refund? Hell yes.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." Q
Join the 44th Fleet. [FED and KDF] Apply Online:
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 467
# 176
09-09-2013, 09:15 AM
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
1) Slavers had their chance to steal goods almost tripled in this patch.
2) Relaunch timers never mattered, because Slavers attempt to steal every 15seconds. Hangars would have to refresh 2x this fast in order to have any impact on their ability to steal loot.
3) The average EC value taken over time has been more than doubled, despite these reductions. It's just far less spikey & inconsistent, now.
4) No individual items have been removed from the drop tables - you can still get DS9 commodities, Contraband and Prisoner Doffs. It's only the odds of receiving large numbers of them that've been reduced.

2. Is this an admission that there is a percentage rating in their "buff" code to allow them to fail raiding supplies?

3. Only IF they succeed at stealing, maybe.

I just ran Conduit Elite and Cure Found Normal on my Orion with her FDC(one hangar bay) and was appalled at the LACK of getting even EC the entire matches only ONCE in Conduit Elite did I get any sort of commodities.... 2 provisions ....

2 BLOODY PROVISIONS, NO EC.... Why? because slavers now have a "chance" to steal stuff every 15 seconds... a Chance.... To cryptic that's 2-5% just like all it's Proc weapons

Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,702
# 177
09-09-2013, 05:29 PM
I would have to agreed for the most part with Luna, if you sell something you should be able to get what you pay for. Its not fair to a customer to change their product after its been bought. Cryptic, you are really bad for this. I myself have purchased Zen in order to assist my fleet and help gain the needed Dilithium for purchases such as those Orion fighters, as I may not always have time for grinding. When I first used them, I started to earn back some Dilithium from doing the Contraband and sell prisoners daily for duty officers missions, now I never get ether of them. In doing this, you have proved time and again, that your company doesnt conduct an honest business practice! ...Remember the Prototype Vehicles from Champions Online? When we bought them, you could fly with the after burner on unlimited all over the map, we had races and it was the best purchase I had ever bought on that game...then after about a week, you patched it and put a cool down on it and a timer for the use, I rarely play CHampions anymore. Im feeling the same way about STO now... :/

People have mentioned a refund but, A refund wouldnt work at all, once you have already been teased with having a good product, you want THAT PRODUCT!

A lot of my friends are heading to Star Wars, even my little sister and I think im going to be joining them more often! CatStar is a Cathar, Jedi Sage now =^.^=

Every episode of TNG if written by STO_How Picard dealt with ARC_Cat hug_No to ARC!

Last edited by catstarsto; 09-09-2013 at 05:32 PM.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,721
# 178
09-10-2013, 01:56 PM
I'd like to remind everyone in this thread that just because it hasn't had a Dev Reply in a while, doesn't mean it's an issue that's going ignored. And making disparaging remarks about the people you're pleading with to hear your side of the story, is never a good tactic in any negotiation.

The good news is that we're re-examining the drop rates and relative values on all ranks of Slaver pets. I'll explain in more detail a bit later on, but first I'd like to respond to a few specific points:

1) Slavers are not an investment, and were never intended to be. Just like any other Hangar Pet, they are a choice for players to make in terms of what they use or don't use, based on a combination of their combat performance and their unique flavor. We have never intended for Slaver pets to be a net day-to-day economic gain for any player, and interpreting their previous functionality as such, simply because you could regularly pull valuable commodities out of thin air, is flawed logic. As such, we're not entertaining thoughts of refunds for the purchase of these pets. Instead, as previously mentioned, we're continuing to tune their effectiveness.

2) In the original design, Contraband pulls were too common for an automatic, always-on ability of this type. The original odds put in place by the original designer were made prior to Contraband becoming such a valuable and sought-after commodity for Dilithium trade-in, and a re-examination was inevitable. But it's not because we're attempting to create pain points for players, or "force" you to purchase Zen, or any of the other conspiracy theories that have been tossed about in this thread. It's simply a matter of balancing the overall economy based on our established models of Time Invested vs. Resources Earned (EC and Dil included). We don't always get such adjustments right on the first try, though, which is why we've come back to take another look.

Now, with those points clarified, let's get down to some raw numbers ...

First of all, Slaver pets have always only had a Chance of successfully pulling EC/Commodities with every 15-second cooldown on their Pillage ability.

* Before LoR = 1%
* After LoR = 2.5%

In a sample size of 30 minutes, that's 120 attempts to Pillage. The average number of successes would equal out to:

* Before LoR = 1.2
* After LoR = 3

As you can already see, the average number of successful Pillages did almost triple with the changes that came out with LoR. And we're looking at doubling it again, so that Slavers will more frequently return with prizes in-hand.

The big thing that changed to offset this increase in regularity, and to normalize Contraband intake, is the reward tables themselves. I'm not going to post the complete tables here, but I'll share a few details about what the old tables looked like vs the new ones, in general terms.

We examined the odds from both the old and new reward tables, combined with the old and new Pillage success rates, in order to determine the Average EC value a player could expect per 15-second Pillage attempt. Here are our findings:

Old Avg EC = 5.86 EC
New Avg EC = 12.61 EC

Old Avg EC = 120.41 EC
New Avg EC = 21.17 EC

Old Avg EC = 306.7 EC
New Avg EC = 96.71 EC

(For reference, standard commodities have an in-system defined value that we used for these calculations. For Contraband we used a market value of 20,000 EC, and all DS9 commodities are valued at 10,000 except Jevonite which is 25,000.)

Obviously, once we'd performed this analysis, we saw that the LoR reductions to periodic rewards were too harsh. We'd been aiming to give players a similar level of reward per Pillage, despite the Contraband reduction, and our analysis shows that we didn't hit that target. By fairly substantial margin, unfortunately.

As a result of this analysis, and in concert with the Success Rate increase mentioned above, we're looking at making changes to Slaver reward tables that will result in the following new Average EC figures:

Old Avg EC = 5.86 EC

Old Avg EC = 120.41 EC
PROPOSED = 133.65 EC

Old Avg EC = 306.7 EC
PROPOSED = 450.34 EC

Obviously the vast majority of those that have voiced concern in this thread, are particularly concerned with the rate at which Contraband can be gained using the Advanced and Elite versions of these pets. Although those figures are still going to be lower than they were pre-LoR, we are looking at increasing them slightly. As shown here:

no chance of Contraband (same as always)

Pre-LoR = 14.64% combined chance, for an average of 4
Post-LoR = 2.2% combined chance, for an average of 2
PROPOSED = 7.83% combined chance, for an average of 2

Pre-LoR = 10.92% combined chance, for an average of 4
Post-LoR = 2.45% combined chance, for an average of 2
PROPOSED = 8.84% combined chance, for an average of 2

Now... to be frank, once these changes are implemented, we will more-or-less consider the matter closed. We've performed our due diligence to combine the internal needs of our economic balancing, with the feedback we've received from you - our concerned players - and come to an agreement on the design that meets both needs to the best of our abilities. We hope you'll agree, and that we can set this longstanding matter to rest.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Staff Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Follow the STO_DevTracker on Twitter!

Last edited by borticuscryptic; 09-10-2013 at 02:02 PM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,456
# 179
09-10-2013, 02:00 PM
Good post bort, thanks.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,003
# 180
09-10-2013, 02:29 PM
Guys, I think you're doing a very good job at customer happiness, lately.

On top of the qualitative missions of LoR also sales, giveways, bug fixes and tweaks. And I have to say, the explanations and feedback-feedback accompanying said bug fixes and tweaks are very much appreciated. Keep up the good work, I say.

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