Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,317
# 281
09-10-2013, 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adjudicatorhawk View Post
Double-tap is bad gameplay - period, end of story. It's a workaround for a shared cooldown that was always supposed to prevent exactly what's happening. It fixes a lot of things about this small problem - but the point that many are making (and that I agree with) is that this fix is just a drop in the moderately large bucket in the grand scheme of unwinding and overhauling combat math to make things feel fair for both aggressors and defenders, and make combat between evenly matched adversaries take a more reasonable amount of time. The trick to any of these changes is that our PvE combat is in a pretty good place - people can have a lot of fun flying just about any ship, and can contribute meaningfully to queued events and basically have a blast. Therefore, any change to combat math that also affects PvE is extremely high risk - so the knobs we have to balance and tweak PvP pacing are limited to those that don't have unintended side effects.

It's not an impossible job - it just requires a lot of care and time investment. If things are broken or things are really bad gameplay, it's easy to justify stepping in and fixing something immediately. If things aren't either of the above but are still less fun or less engaging than they could be, we obviously want to fix them - it just takes more work and more time to get the fix right and minimize any external side effects of that fix.

That's a bit of a ramble, but I know you guys like insight into why we change things we choose to change and how we make the game, so hopefully it interests you/makes sense to you. Please try to stay positive and constructive in responses - I'm happy to entertain discussions and talk about things openly, but if you start flaming or posting off-topic things, it's really hard to justify responding to something like that.
Thanks for the insight.

Based on you insight, can you share your thoughts on:

The aux 2 batt technician doffs interacting with the d'kora EMP burst (Drastically reduces cooldown on this ability)?

Grav pulse which can be buffed to 50+ seconds

As other people have asked, friend and foe, is Temporal Inversion Field working as intended? What is meant to be hard counters to it?
aka NazHuggyBear2

"No, there is no real problem with P2W in STO. Obviously, if you fight against someone with an equal level of skill in the game, better equipment will give you an edge. But usually, it is the skill level that determines the outcome, not the P2W." - Sprinkles
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 490
# 282
09-10-2013, 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Thanks for the response hawk.

I recognize the difficulty with making changes and their effect on the PvE crowd and your post here gives me faith that we will hopefully see some other extremes toned down in the future.

I hope you can appreciate that many of us are very passionate about this, PvP is what we enjoy about STO and we are pretty starved for some much needed changes in "unwinding and overhauling" some of the other bad gameplay mechanics that we still have at the moment.


My position is really the same as its been since my first post in this thread.

I understand the desire to tone down extreme spike, but we have a thread here from February 2013 discussing why pressure is dead and why builds have been pushed into spike.

So as long as the other side of the coin, eventually, gets toned down as well I don't see this as necessarily a bad change:

Things like
  • perma 60%+ shield resistance,
  • +90% shield resistance vs. torpedos,
  • 66% Tac Team uptime coverage,
  • 25s RSP 3 from DOFF on 60s Cooldown (A2B) for nearly 50% uptime on "invincibility" mode,
  • etc.
I really want to get a %healing reduction ability into every career somewhere. Not sure if the right flavor for an ability like that is to apply it to the healer (I target your deflector! Your TSS sucks now!) or the heal-ee (Proton Scattering Ray blasts your shields, making them receive 50% less healing from abilities!), but either way, it lets us make distinctions between PvE and PvP time-to-kill without hurting one for the sake of the other.
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 486
# 283
09-10-2013, 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thishorizon View Post
follow up thought:

a properly spec'd engineer an a defensive minded ship cannot be taken out by 1 "vaper"

is this not just the argument in reverse?
Its because of all the pay2win and uni consoles which made people squishy as **** these days
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,708
# 284
09-10-2013, 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adjudicatorhawk View Post
Reputation-based defensive and offensive abilities are individually within acceptable power limits, but ultimately the systems scale too well in that you don't have to give anything up to equip many, many passive powers. Ultimately I think this system makes more sense to move towards a deck-building system (e.g., you have 8 slots for Rep powers and can slot any 8 powers you've unlocked), but that'd be a huge system overhaul and would understandably upset players who already have access to more than 8 rep powers. We could also do something like make all the Rep powers much more potent, but limit you to 2 or 3 each in Space and Ground, plus 1 tier 5 active power, or something like that. This is all just me thinking out loud - there are no plans to change the reputation powers at this time.
May I suggest, you already have a limited opportunity pool
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 490
# 285
09-10-2013, 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naz4 View Post
Thanks for the insight.

Based on you insight, can you share your thoughts on:

The aux 2 batt technician doffs interacting with the d'kora EMP burst (Drastically reduces cooldown on this ability)?
I think purple aux2batt technicians are probably a little too strong in general, but they've been in-game as-is for so long that touching them is high-risk. Technician procs should only be affecting Bridge Officer abilities as far as I'm aware, although this proc predates my tenure here so I could be wrong on that. I suspect though that any consoles affected by Technicians are a bug.

Quote:
Grav pulse which can be buffed to 50+ seconds
It's kind of hard to say with STO, since our space combat is slower-paced than most MMO combat. As a general guideline for MMOs, CC shouldn't be longer than 8-10 seconds - it interrupts the player behavior core loop that I talked about earlier in the thread, causing frustration. In STO space combat, that duration can probably be safely doubled, but higher than 20 seconds seems silly. Grav pulse in particular, I think its scaling is too high and its base effectiveness may be too low.

Quote:
As other people have asked, friend and foe, is Temporal Inversion Field working as intended? What is meant to be hard counters to it?
Need more information - what are you seeing, and how is it different from what you would expect?
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 78
# 286
09-10-2013, 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Comments in red.

Feel free to go through your own thread to find any of the things you claim.


Try facts next time.



Here are some quotes, from your own thread, that you should actually try reading even a little.


Let me know when you're ready to have a discussion that includes facts and not straw-man attacks, lies and complete nonsense.
bah you're rigth thats what happens when you fast read every thing and you see lots of people basicly saying nothing....so i'm sorry... =), all i want is that this game is fair and fun to play...

but the part about the escorts i keep it because its related to the post you did right before mine... xD
Lt. Commander
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 135
# 287
09-10-2013, 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adjudicatorhawk View Post
Reputation-based defensive and offensive abilities are individually within acceptable power limits, but ultimately the systems scale too well in that you don't have to give anything up to equip many, many passive powers. Ultimately I think this system makes more sense to move towards a deck-building system (e.g., you have 8 slots for Rep powers and can slot any 8 powers you've unlocked), but that'd be a huge system overhaul and would understandably upset players who already have access to more than 8 rep powers. We could also do something like make all the Rep powers much more potent, but limit you to 2 or 3 each in Space and Ground, plus 1 tier 5 active power, or something like that. This is all just me thinking out loud - there are no plans to change the reputation powers at this time.

Item powers like Fleet Shields or Fleet Weapons are much less of a problem, systemically - you have to choose an item to slot, and in so doing, you give necessarily give up on all other choices. The problem, then, is that there are not enough legitimate options for those slots (especially shields and fleet weapons) that perform on an equal footing. This is a mechanical balance problem - if we made Elite Fleet Phasers into a force multiplier rather than a selfish buff, for instance, inequalities between KDF and SF fleet weapons would disappear.

With regards to your disagreement, I evaluate good or bad gameplay on two axes: Is this "fun", and does it feel "fair"? Both axes are highly subjective, so of course it's possible that I may gauge something to be a problem on both axes and you may find it fine on both, but it's my job to be as objective as possible and consider the entire spectrum of our playerbase when making such evaluations. Something like Double-tap Overloads feels very fun to the person using it, but is extremely anti-fun to the recipient. A large portion of fun in combat comes from the base human state cycle of analyze events, determine action, take action, gauge success of action, recalculate, goto 1. Any time something cuts out that cycle, it creates a deep feeling of resentment or unfairness, and the earlier in the cycle you drop out, the more unfair it feels. In the case of anything that deals massive damage to a player with no warning, they are removed from the behavior cycle outlined above before they even start - it's essentially the worst problem a piece of gameplay can have.

Hope that makes sense! Doing a lot of math today, so the part of my brain that does English is sitting in the proverbial backseat, heh.
pretty much sums up why i wont ever be returning to this game. vape is dead, ive been after that golden moment for 3 yrs and sometimes it was hard lately it still wasnt easy vs good players.

i guess the idea is to give a "fair warning" when attacking from stealth. really pathetic man, as if dnd rogue, sneak attacks, or elements of SURPRISE were the enemy. for shame, eternal shame. u may edit my post but you will read this. you have done a disservice to all long time vet players and especially kdf.

the fact u even mention pve reveals ur ignorance. i am really sad that greater more wellinformed devs arent aorund now. jheinig, snix, where art thou? ive instavaped them in pvps from opvp and they ddnt cry.

i imagine u will see a big drop off in pvp even more than recently as sto dies in nerf cycle to oblivion. drastically changing a paid service after collecting the money should be illegal

player vs craptic players always lose. every lame console is ok, but doubleing up tac powers isnt? heres hopin this is my last post here ever, bad gameplay period. THATS FUGGIN STOS MO= bad **** gameplay since day 1
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,096
# 288
09-10-2013, 02:23 PM
Thanks hawk. Good thoughts.

It's not fun NOT being able to kill targets either based on certain things.

Search for the balance bro.

And have fun kill bad guys.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 490
# 289
09-10-2013, 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursusmorologus View Post
Changing them to traits would solve the scaling problems of the system but would greatly damage players' current builds - they would experience an across-the-board reduction in effectiveness and no longer be able to choose all the traits they previously liked. Rep powers are better than traits, for the most part - they don't really belong in the same "deck of cards", in my opinion.
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,799
# 290
09-10-2013, 02:23 PM
Thanks for popping back in.

Gotta say a system where we slot passives is pretty much a terrible system... better then what we got but not much better.

Frankly I would imagine that after such a thing was implemented someone at cryptic would make every new rep system have super fantastic much better then the old ones type of passives. The kind that force you to keep grinding... and lead to even more power creep.

The real fix to the passives... is to STOP freaking doing them.

At this point the only way to fix healing is going to be to do something drastic... like institute a diminishing return on shield resists... with out changing anything in game.

That would hurt people that don't have all there rep ground out and aren't dishing out for fleet shields... but really I don't see how else you balance it at this point with out taking things from people.

As long as people can keep 50%+ shield resists up all the time with nothing but the very basic of buffs... and push it to darn close to or to the cap any time they feel a little bit of a tickle... this game will be broken.

The resists + tactical team Shield Quadrupling are what lead people to take what used to be a very niche idea (the double tap) and ratchet it up to try and score kills.

I am not saying the tap was needed... just that it was a response to the state of the game. Frankly if you leave the state of the game as it is for very long after this double tap fix... we are going to bleed even more PvP players. The **** just isn't all that fun anymore. There are some that enjoy hour long matches... but most people find it tedious and annoying more then anything else... and They end up leaving the game with a massive rant on a TS somewhere... and after the /uninstall they aren't coming back.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
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