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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 880
# 21
09-12-2013, 04:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
Let us take the upcoming nerf to BO double/triple tapping. Everyone is throwing a hissy fit that it fails to fix the real issue and that it shouldn't be done.
As far as I know, everyone is okay with or even hoping for a nerf. The issue people have is that the tactic isn't being nerfed -- it's being flat out removed -- and that removal may also have long reaching repercussions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
Yet a few months ago when they were about to eliminate the always on EPtS that is one of the most OP bridge officer abilities in the game everyone began to throw a hissy fit.
Nobody was against a nerf to EPtS or a buff to other EPtX skills, the disagreement was about having a built-in hard coverage gap.
Behold, The Jorf Guide
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 22
09-12-2013, 06:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
As far as I know, everyone is okay with or even hoping for a nerf. The issue people have is that the tactic isn't being nerfed -- it's being flat out removed -- and that removal may also have long reaching repercussions.
Agreed.

I also personally think the spike damage tools we have that actually require timing and skill, such as Beam Overload and Torpedos could both use improvement.


As much as I'd hate to respec all of my characters and find some way to spec into projectiles, I'd love to see Photon & Quantum Torpedos make a proper comeback

Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 23
09-12-2013, 07:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by poeddude View Post
Bit of a contradiction there as PvE and PvP are the only 2 aspects of this game.

I always expect posts from pvpers to come down to "I'm better than you because I pvp" and i'm never disappointed.


Could you tell me exactly how pve is different from most pvp? Sure pvp has more abilities but tends to use them back to back the way NPCs do. People may try to out-maneuver you but keeping someone in your firing arc is the same in both pve and pvp. If a borg sphere moved and turned as fast as a player, had 7 weapon systems, 12 BO abilities (including 2x TT, 2x EPTS etc) and a couple of gimmick consoles there would be very little real difference between that and a player because the fundamental game system is so simple. Sure the NPCs don't cross heal much (some Elachi do) but give them the same tanking capabilities as a player and see what would happen.

.

You answer your own question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,051
# 24
09-12-2013, 07:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by poeddude View Post

Could you tell me exactly how pve is different from most pvp?
rethoric question? hmmm....

simple answer:
npc's may use 3-5 abilities. unskilled, tweaked, whatever. their ai mostly is kinda poor. given that most players are more intelligent than that ai the odds are not equal.
they try to level that out by numbers and strenght (borg hy torps, hullpoints, etc.).
so we see it's not really fair, at least due to lack in ai.

other players on the other hand start from the same point as you. in the beginning the odds are even.
other players give a challenge. they try to be better and actually use what the games gives to them. as much as possible (npc's don't).
they take their choices after testing, reading and such things. for a decent pve build u don't have to do that in that manner. best proove for that is the fact that most 1st time pvp'ers gettin vaped so hard (like myself).

pve teaches nothing about game mechanics, pvp forces to learn.
that, for me, is the most remarkable difference.

Klink: House of Beautiful - J'Luc / Rommie: Lag Industries - D'Waste
Join Date Hoster: Dec 2011 - Join Date Symbiont: 1403 A.D. and not a dull moment
PLZ ADD MARKS-TO-CHOOSE PACKS AND AFK/LEAVER PENALTY TO PVP PUBLIC QUES (not privates!)
AND DON'T TOUCH OUR DIL!!!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 136
# 25
09-12-2013, 07:12 AM
I really didn't want this to become a thread discussing the differences between PvE and PvP superiority complexes.

The core theme I wanted players to discuss was game design: should design and balance be prioritized for high-skill play, or continue to follow the trend that caters only to the casual level?
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=93695767000&dateline=  1347284393
Lag Industries STO/TOR Guild
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,746
# 26
09-12-2013, 07:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxlagind View Post
The core theme I wanted players to discuss was game design: should design and balance be prioritized for high-skill play, or continue to follow the trend that caters only to the casual level?
What I personally desire...is contrary to what I believe is best for the game. Trippy, eh?

Personally, I'd prefer that it was prioritized for the high-skill play.

However, look how the game has "grown" as Cryptic has continued to lower the bar left, right, and center - eh? It's increased revenue - increased development...going the route they have has kept STO alive and is even allowing it to grow.

Does that mean both PvP and PvE folks that prefer the other are going to take issue with that design path? Yep...see it from both sides.

In the end though, they continue to add more and more power...while not only not adding more difficult content, but actually making that content easier. The backlash with the Elachi was the "players" speaking...so the game is going to be what it is.

In wanting to grow the endgame for customer retention and continued revenue...and...with PvP being a part of endgame, we shouldn't be surprised that the bar will be lowered there as well - made more casual.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 27
09-12-2013, 07:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxlagind View Post
I really didn't want this to become a thread discussing the differences between PvE and PvP superiority complexes.

The core theme I wanted players to discuss was game design: should design and balance be prioritized for high-skill play, or continue to follow the trend that caters only to the casual level?
Good point, and a good call trying to move the thread back to its original intent.


I think the truth is that it depends if you want your game to have depth and longevity, or if you want your game to cash in big, but fizzle out much faster due to shallow play and no room for real player skill growth.

Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,051
# 28
09-12-2013, 07:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxlagind View Post
should design and balance be prioritized for high-skill play, or continue to follow the trend that caters only to the casual level?
sry, couldn't resist .

(once upon a time, i heard someone whisper the word..... balance)

in the long run it should be high-skill-play.
the more casual the game gets, the more it will loose in the long run.
(adding p2w with uber-powers, rommies, bad ai, etc.)

the higher the quality is, the more it will gain (less qq, more players attracting, ...).

i absolutely believe that going for a non-sick balance is the way to keep this game alive for a long time.
the direction right now only feels like hole-digging .

just my 2ct

Klink: House of Beautiful - J'Luc / Rommie: Lag Industries - D'Waste
Join Date Hoster: Dec 2011 - Join Date Symbiont: 1403 A.D. and not a dull moment
PLZ ADD MARKS-TO-CHOOSE PACKS AND AFK/LEAVER PENALTY TO PVP PUBLIC QUES (not privates!)
AND DON'T TOUCH OUR DIL!!!

Last edited by wast33; 09-12-2013 at 07:38 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,517
# 29
09-12-2013, 07:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxlagind View Post
The core theme I wanted players to discuss was game design: should design and balance be prioritized for high-skill play, or continue to follow the trend that caters only to the casual level?
I dont think it matters as much as just narrowing the band.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,033
# 30
09-12-2013, 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by havam View Post


The problem: Cryptic thinks PvE is fine, where as the large consensus for the last three years on the pvp forums has been it is not. We then might debate how to best introduce harder mobs, and shield distribution into PvE. But that is obviously useless, if Cryptic refuses to admit that the problem exists.

This is where I must disagree with you. Crypic is correct about PvE difficulty and the player base has already voted upon that. The metrics on content played clearly demonstrates this and the fact that the game player base has continued to grow rapidly drives the point home.

The average player does NOT want
- To learn the method of creating keybinds and then doing so
- Learn all the ins and outs of the game mechanics
- Heavily invest into their build to make it top tier/competitive
- And so on

They want to join the queue, do some pew pew and have some fun. With luck they get a prize when they are done. PuG stomping is the absolutely most toxic thing for a growth of the PvP playerbase.

The PvP forum community, and I mean no disrespect, is the vocal minority of the player minority. Therefore all feedback must be looked threw the lens of 'is this the direction Cryptic feels the game should go'.
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