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Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,061
# 421
09-12-2013, 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjgrands420 View Post
cheers vang, few have played the other side as often and well as you. your accurate summation of the situation makes me smile. the new doff that bypassed shields gave teeth to my spike even if i attacked at the "wrong time"

against the vangs renims and lacus of the world spike never has had 100% success rate when generated from a single ship. even psw doesnt guarantee a kill.


vang and others know it isnt that luck shot vape thats the problem, its that u dont even need to be lucky or good anymore. the style itself was fine, the boosts/new doff/rep pushed it into questionable territory.


and the fact that minmax died so easy from heavy spec and boff inveztment made instant death easier to swallow. now zombie rom rolls thru one shots and is 15 k away in a blink.


not a thing to do with marion or double tap, which vang has been surviving for months (mostly)

ggs and i take back 99% of bad i said about u :-)

The best defense against spike is still speed. Once moved past your tractor range, not only your beams are greatly reduced in strength, they are also more likely to miss and once outside of your firing range - nothing can be done. Instead, your decloaked ship can't recloak immediately. So a tractor here or GW there, your ship will be like a bug stuck in a spider's web.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 184
# 422
09-12-2013, 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjgrands420 View Post
ggs and i take back 99% of bad i said about u :-)
cheers mate


kudos to the devs if they can make this 100% balanced for all gameplay types from bops to sci debuffers to healers to the occassional tanks for laughs...maybe one day I hope

Last edited by spacefortress; 09-12-2013 at 11:25 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,468
# 423
09-12-2013, 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjgrands420 View Post
ggs and i take back 99% of bad i said about u :-)
Yeah, but that 1% was the worst part!
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,061
# 424
09-12-2013, 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
There are these things called "team mates".

They help keep you alive.


They watch out for decloakers.


I know this because I have them, and when we test our decloak builds on each other in 5v5 inter-fleet battles, there are ways to defend against the tactic, and ways to punish the opposing team or the decloaker.

So apparently we are doing something that is actually, truly, impossible?

Or is it just impossible for you?
The vast majority of fleets, even the big one like mine, do close to zero PvP. I am the only one who does any PvP with any regularity. Then I can count on one hand the number of them that do the very occasional Arena, out of an active fleet of 300+ people.

More to the point, I am a casual gamer, not a hard core pro. PvP in fact occupies a small portion of my time, I do many other things - like train people, help newbies, review their builds, do testing, doff-ing - a lot other things and yes, PvE too. When I PvP, I made a point of not taking part in premade teams unless my fleet is having a casual among ourselves. Being a lone wolf by nature, I enjoy my freedom and my builds reflect the self-reliance of that.

Last but not least, teammates can't save your bacon when your opponents know they are doing. The fact is if your opponents are any good, you will not have the time or the ability to spare heals for your teammate who will die in just 2 seconds. Proof of that, this past weekend, I camped out in my Romulan fighting the premade HOBO who were lurking in Kerrat, hunting unsuspected Feds in group. HOBO, being a large premade fleet, is well organized to say the least. They do the exact things you described, watch out for each other and decloakers. I was hunting alone, it didn't stop me from killing several of their members who btw are all PvP forum regulars here, before getting away. I don't even use Double Tap and typically need at least 5-10 seconds to do the job. This shows what you said is good in theory but a skilled double tapper will need much less time than I do and can get away far easier. So if your opponents are crap, sure, you can cross-heal all you want. But if your opponents are determined to out cheese you, which is extremely easy to do, I can think of at least 100 ways to out cheese a premade team in a pre-determined environment. Have everyone equipped with a 1 minute long Graviton Pulse, using it one at a time. Your entire team will spend the whole time getting stucked in it.


This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~Bluegeek

Last edited by bluegeek; 09-13-2013 at 09:47 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 184
# 425
09-12-2013, 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Yeah, but that 1% was the worst part!



http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&so...79093744362779
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,061
# 426
09-12-2013, 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjgrands420 View Post
the new doff that bypassed shields gave teeth to my spike even if i attacked at the "wrong time"
That's not entirely true. You will need the double tap to make it work however. The BO doff does nothing on the first BO. If it does proc, it's the subsequent attacks, not on the initial BO itself.

It should not be a surprise to you that this was considered when this thread was made : http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=834021

The 5 seconds delay wasn't some out of blue number I pulled out of thin air, it was precisely chosen so that the BO doff proc will wear off by the time the 2nd BO hits. With one set of Torpedo HY doing 45% of penetration at most subsequently, the spike will be much less than before. Unless you are using the Elachi weapon, I think you will notice that the BO doff proc will be much less useful without double tap given that Torpedo do not instant hit and can miss.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 883
# 427
09-12-2013, 11:48 AM
Sorry Bluegeek, but I lack Ulti's control and feel the need to engage this guy, at least this once.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iskandus View Post
The fact is if your opponents are any good, you will not have the time or the ability to spare heals for your teammate who will die in just 2 seconds. Proof of that, this past weekend, I camped out in my Romulan fighting the premade HOBO who were lurking in Kerrat, hunting unsuspected Feds in group. HOBO, being a large premade fleet, is well organized to say the least.
HOBOs are a very large fleet, with a very small number of players who do premade PvP, and I believe some of their best left a while back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iskandus View Post
So if your opponents are crap, sure, you can cross-heal all you want.
If you ask practically any PvPer who the best double-taper in the game is, they'll tell you it is MT, who is of course in Pandas. The implication that our testing is flawed because we don't go up against skilled enough vapers is rather laughable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iskandus View Post
But if your opponents are determined to out cheese you, which is extremely easy to do, I can think of at least 100 ways to out cheese a premade team in a pre-determined environment. Have everyone equipped with a 1 minute long Graviton Pulse, using it one at a time. Your entire team will spend the whole time getting stucked in it.
Ultimatum doesn't use GPG in PvP. No one in Pandas uses GPG. Every single one of us thinks that 50+s GPG is unreasonable and should be nerfed. The reason behind Ultimatum's thread in his signature is to draw the right kind of attention to the power that will result in it being severely dialed back -- the thought is that the devs are more likely to fix an out of line power if it can be demonstrated to break PvE and STFs in particular. If you had actually read through his thread you would have noticed this quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Like I said, I don't use it in PvP but it does make the 10,000th STF I've run a little smoother.
Behold, The Jorf Guide

Last edited by bluegeek; 09-13-2013 at 09:47 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,061
# 428
09-12-2013, 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
HOBOs are a very large fleet, with a small number of players who do premade PvP, and I believe some of the better ones left a while back.
Not wanting to get into fleet politics since it's off topic and the mods are especially edgy when anyone talks about specific fleets too much - let's just say the ones this past weekend are very good. Like I said, most of them are regular posters here in the PvP forum but I will not name them though I have no doubt you will recognize them immediately. They are definitely not 2nd class PvPers, that much I can say.


Quote:
If you ask practically any PvPer who the best double-taper in the game is, they'll tell you it is MT, who is of course in Pandas. The implication that our testing is flawed because we don't go up against skilled enough vapers is rather laughable.
You read too much into my statement. I also think you are stretching the truth a little here, not going to say anymore beyond that because I want to stay on topic.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 184
# 429
09-12-2013, 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post



Ultimatum doesn't use GPG in PvP. No one in Pandas uses GPG. Every single one of us thinks that 50+s GPG is unreasonable and should be nerfed. The reason behind Ultimatum's thread in his signature is to draw the right kind of attention to the power that will result in it being severely dialed back -- the thought is that the devs are more likely to fix an out of line power if it can be demonstrated to break PvE and STFs in particular. If you had actually read through his thread you would have noticed this quote:

No offense but it sounds like Ultimatum sounds like he/she spends too much time on these forums

That's enough to make anyone bitter and half-crazy lol

http://www.cristoferdelatorre.com/em.../majin_boo.gif

Last edited by spacefortress; 09-12-2013 at 12:01 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 430
09-12-2013, 01:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spacefortress View Post
oh wait ...that's right it doesn't work anymore since bleedthrough is so bad..that those spikers will penetrate your heavily defended shields regardless..... take it from me, having over 10 defensive buffs readily when minimax used his spike on me....well it was a surprise when his attack ignored my shields and popped my 60k hull boat inside a second despite the fact i had rsp III + TSS II + TT II + and Rotate shield frequency with high auxiliary power active...much to my disgust
That just about summarizes the state of the game at present really, pre and post BO nerf. Extreme resists and heals.

I've played against you yesterday, you were indeed hard to pop as it should be really, one Double tapper shouldn't be able to vape a decent build really, unless you have two in coordination.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
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