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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,080
# 71
09-11-2013, 09:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alopen View Post
EptE negates just about all holds all by itself and renders putting points in engine power unnecessary, so it is OP.
I have to disagree. EptE on its own doesn't do anything, it is definitely not OP. I should know, I tried.
You have to consider turn rate and other speed buffs, that's when things get out of hand.

Hey Cryptic, can you DPS this Error ID 30191178 so that I can play?
**~Reality under scrutiny~**
@haudace
UFP Fleet: Operation Omega Task Force | KDF Fleet: KHG Klingon Honor Guard
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,854
# 72
09-11-2013, 11:13 AM
I think EPTE got a stealth nerf slightly in regards to escaping holds.

Yes it used to allow you to escape anything but now it's takes a little more.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,888
# 73
09-12-2013, 06:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deokkent View Post
I have to disagree. EptE on its own doesn't do anything, it is definitely not OP. I should know, I tried.
You have to consider turn rate and other speed buffs, that's when things get out of hand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by edalgo View Post
I think EPTE got a stealth nerf slightly in regards to escaping holds.

Yes it used to allow you to escape anything but now it's takes a little more.
Funny I am still running through tractor beams, grav wells, and tractor mines like they aren't even there in a ship only using epte1 and no aux2ID, and am able to do this when omega is on cd. Someone was able to consistently hold me today with tractors but this takes higher level tractor beam, graviton generator spec and consoles, and high aux. An ensign level skill that you dont even have to spec into like epte shouldnt require a lt cmdr skill like tb3 and full spec and consoles to beat it, thats op.
Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,055
# 74
09-12-2013, 07:16 PM
The Ensign level counter is pretty standard in STO... why should Tractor beam be immune to this.

Tractor is countered by PH 1 Completely... and EPTE mostly negates it, it in that it helps people get outside the 5k range.

I don't see any issue with that.

If we are going to go off on Ensign level counters.

There are many more ensign level counters that 100% cure things.

How about Hazards 1 clearing Siphen 3... or Eject Warp Plasma 3... or Tykens 3.

EPTE isn't a hard counter its a soft one.

Frankly tractor beams with Zero spend in Graviton shouldn't hold anything at all imo.

Why is it that so many people think there 100% unspeced stuff should work perfectly all the time... even when there target is running soft and or hard counters ?
/channel_join Tyler Durden
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,888
# 75
09-12-2013, 07:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
The Ensign level counter is pretty standard in STO... why should Tractor beam be immune to this.

Tractor is countered by PH 1 Completely... and EPTE mostly negates it, it in that it helps people get outside the 5k range.

I don't see any issue with that.

If we are going to go off on Ensign level counters.

There are many more ensign level counters that 100% cure things.

How about Hazards 1 clearing Siphen 3... or Eject Warp Plasma 3... or Tykens 3.

EPTE isn't a hard counter its a soft one.

Frankly tractor beams with Zero spend in Graviton shouldn't hold anything at all imo.

Why is it that so many people think there 100% unspeced stuff should work perfectly all the time... even when there target is running soft and or hard counters ?
hazzards or ph cant have 100% uptime though. I am ok with a soft counter as long as its a little softer then it is now. My 60-70 graviton skill mostly from my deflector and consoles should be enough to negate epte1 with tb1, but it isn't usually.
Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,055
# 76
09-12-2013, 08:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc8219 View Post
hazzards or ph cant have 100% uptime though. I am ok with a soft counter as long as its a little softer then it is now. My 60-70 graviton skill mostly from my deflector and consoles should be enough to negate epte1 with tb1, but it isn't usually.
Yes thats true EPTE can be kept up 100%... but its not a hard counter its a soft counter.

Very soft because the only resisting it is doing is by increasing the speed at which you can pull away from things like GW and Tractor. (unless you are using the doff that increases your resist I guess)

As for Hazards and PH... with 2 copies or aux to bat they have close to 70% up time....

Omega has 50% up time with doffs.

Omega + PH these days and you are 100% immune to Tractors hard counter like not just the soft speed counter.

I do understand your point... that it can easily be ran 100% of the time these days... I am just saying its the nature of STO... where hard counters have super short cool downs... that with doffs these days have almost no cool down.

So if your hard counters are up for 30s every 45s... what is reasonable for a counter that barely qualifies as a Soft one.
/channel_join Tyler Durden
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,888
# 77
09-12-2013, 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
So if your hard counters are up for 30s every 45s... what is reasonable for a counter that barely qualifies as a Soft one.
That raises another point, there are already too much counters to cc that can be up as it is already, epte being up full time makes it worse, maybe some of those should be looked at as well if epte isn't scaled back enough, like granting resistance that would be based on spec and speed instead of 100% complete immunity.
Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,055
# 78
09-12-2013, 08:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc8219 View Post
That raises another point, there are already too much counters to cc that can be up as it is already, epte being up full time makes it worse, maybe some of those should be looked at as well if epte isn't scaled back enough, like granting resistance that would be based on spec and speed instead of 100% complete immunity.
Well there are skill tree counters... to be honest I don't think they work right. We should be careful what we wish for if Cryptic ever fixes I Damp spec I think we will all be complaining about our 100% useless tractors.

For the CC stuff though... I do get what Crytpic is going for... People in general freaking hate CC to death.

I know I used to run a hold bop... and I used to team with a friend that did the same... we ran the bops with no Tac officers on the ships at all... it was all Dual Tractors GW VM Warp Plasmas ect.... in a lot of ways the amount of CC we have in this game feels like a total troll.

So I get that they have added a ton of counters.

What I would like to see more of in general is counters that make snese and open you up to other CC.... we have some of that now... but we still have some skills (Hazards looking at the wonder skill here) .... that simply counter way to much.

Awhile back I had put forward an idea where the Teams (Tac Sci Engi) would be decoupled from there globals... and have them act as the main counters. With Engi Team countering thinigs like Eject Warp plasma... and Sci team countering things like Viral Matrix. With no global cool downs to lockout clears.

In general though ya the entire system is a little borked. EPTE is a very soft counter and I don't see any major issues with it still... but I understand the frustration... CC in general doesn't work in this game all that well..... or to put it a better way.... CC works in this game way to well... OR not at all. Just specing most of the Sci defense skills negate the majority of the games CC skills.

The entire thing could use a going over... at this point though I doubt Cryptic does anything major.
/channel_join Tyler Durden
Captain
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,258
# 79
09-13-2013, 04:36 AM
Just take five scis and subnuke the hell out of them. over and over and over and over and over
Vice Admiral Rylana - U.S.S. DNT Omega X || Vice Admiral Lyzara - I.R.W. DNT Omicron X
Vice Admiral Kailiana - R.R.W. DNT Theta X || Vice Admiral Talina - I.R.W. DNT Tau X
Vice Admiral Victoria - U.S.S. DNT Upsilon X || Lt. General Dannika - I.K.S. DNT Sigma X
Vice Admiral Shondra - R.R.W. DNT Alpha X || Lt. General Rosanna - I.K.S. DNT Iota X
=== Vice Squad/House of Tlhap-Jen ===
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,538
# 80
09-13-2013, 04:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Well there are skill tree counters... to be honest I don't think they work right. We should be careful what we wish for if Cryptic ever fixes I Damp spec I think we will all be complaining about our 100% useless tractors.

For the CC stuff though... I do get what Crytpic is going for... People in general freaking hate CC to death.

I know I used to run a hold bop... and I used to team with a friend that did the same... we ran the bops with no Tac officers on the ships at all... it was all Dual Tractors GW VM Warp Plasmas ect.... in a lot of ways the amount of CC we have in this game feels like a total troll.

So I get that they have added a ton of counters.

What I would like to see more of in general is counters that make snese and open you up to other CC.... we have some of that now... but we still have some skills (Hazards looking at the wonder skill here) .... that simply counter way to much.

Awhile back I had put forward an idea where the Teams (Tac Sci Engi) would be decoupled from there globals... and have them act as the main counters. With Engi Team countering thinigs like Eject Warp plasma... and Sci team countering things like Viral Matrix. With no global cool downs to lockout clears.

In general though ya the entire system is a little borked. EPTE is a very soft counter and I don't see any major issues with it still... but I understand the frustration... CC in general doesn't work in this game all that well..... or to put it a better way.... CC works in this game way to well... OR not at all. Just specing most of the Sci defense skills negate the majority of the games CC skills.

The entire thing could use a going over... at this point though I doubt Cryptic does anything major.
Dont forget doff'ed up APO3. I swear one day it ll include counters to drain, snb, and what not so that those evil NWS mobs don't disturb the zen of the escorts pilots under 10 min record runs.
Joined 06.10
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PvP 2012-2013
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