Lt. Commander
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 182
# 11
09-12-2013, 11:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hasukurobi View Post
Mines are the worst weapons in the game. The reason? They are destroyable, have too short a range, do not reliably hit bare shield facings, take too long to arm, and deal less damage than their Torpedo Counterparts.
1. The Borg don't shoot mines.
2. When you drop mines point blank on your target, range is not an issue.
3. If you drop them when you're supposed to you'll always hit a weak or bare face.
4. Arming time is irrelevant to a target that isn't running away from them.
5. Torpedos do crap damage compared to the forward DHC you have to give up to use them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hasukurobi View Post
I mean besides novelty they really offer very little. They deal mediocre damage due to often hitting shields which suck down their damage massively, they are difficult to get onto the target to begin with, and even as Crowd Control things like Theta Vents or Warp Plasma is far more effective and lethal.
1. They do 15-30K(x4) dmg or 2K(x16) regularly, in my experience, and you can do that every 30 seconds.
2. They ARE more difficult to use, that's why they're more fun. I think I actually said that in the post.
3. I didn't say they were the best thing in the game that you can use for crowd control, but they offer that ability as a bonus to the damage they can deliver.

The night before last I did 4 ESTF's in the exact ship I posted. I got top rewards in two of them. We got the optional in all four. It may not work for your play style, but it does work.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 182
# 12
09-12-2013, 11:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sander233 View Post
I very much appreciate the tactically-oriented approach you took while writing this up.

The minelayer approach is definitely a valid tactic for anyone who pubs or pugs STFs.

My Fed used to do ISE/KSE in a minelayer, but then I got to tier 5 on my Rom Rep and discovered all the nasty things I could do with plasma. Now I smoke a transformer in 30 seconds or less unassisted so I just focus on doing that.

Great write-up, anyway.
Thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sander233 View Post
Edit: Another great defensive tactic for mines is to lay a DPB spread of photon or quantum mines and then back up through them, so the mines are in front of you, and waiting to catch any destructible projectile coming your way, like say, plasma bolts in HSE or red alerts, or crystal fragments in CC.
If it's ok, I'll add that to the guide when I break this up!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,001
# 13
09-13-2013, 04:45 AM
There is one more benefit to mines: they don't use weapons power. Making them great for builds that don't use weapon power a lot. Say, sci build or torp boats. Or for those that do, for that matter. So they can keep higher weapon power for the other weapons.

Example:
I sometimes run an engineer with a healer/transphasic B'rel in pvp, with pretty decent results (ie, between 300k and 900k for both damage and heals per match and excellent kill/death ratio's). Mostly because I get to ignore those pesky shield heals and resists. I run it with full aux and close-to-full engine power, and weapons at the lowest setting possible.

TS1, DPB1, AP:O1, DPB3
ET1, Aux2Sif1, EWP1
ST1, TSS2
TB1, HE2

Three transphasic torp launchers plus the cluster torp in front, two transphasic mine launchers in the back. 2-piece Breen bonus to transphasic, 3 transphasic damage consoles.

Catch a target in warp plasma, drop a DPB3 point blank while he's immobilised, then turn around and fire the cluster torp and regular torps (with doffs to reduce cooldown on the cluster torp with every torp launched). Then, watch target blow up, wondering what just happened and why their shields were virtually untouched when they died.

Rest of the time, harass focused targets with pressure damage to hull, make non-targets spend their heals prematurely, drop mines in combat zones and heal own team with great effect, all while remaining (mostly) cloaked. When uncloaked and attacked, use EWP and mines to annoy pursuer, use heals on self (including eng heals), pop APO/EM and optionally the Barrier Console to GTFO, then recloak when able.

*shrug*

Sure, there's more effective killer builds, but it's a lot of fun to do and combines pressure damage with a style of healing both more mobile and unpredictable for the enemy than average healers. It's a harassment build.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,329
# 14
09-13-2013, 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tggrinc View Post
1. The Borg don't shoot mines.
2. When you drop mines point blank on your target, range is not an issue.
3. If you drop them when you're supposed to you'll always hit a weak or bare face.
4. Arming time is irrelevant to a target that isn't running away from them.
5. Torpedos do crap damage compared to the forward DHC you have to give up to use them.


1. They do 15-30K(x4) dmg or 2K(x16) regularly, in my experience, and you can do that every 30 seconds.

3. I didn't say they were the best thing in the game that you can use for crowd control, but they offer that ability as a bonus to the damage they can deliver.

The night before last I did 4 ESTF's in the exact ship I posted. I got top rewards in two of them. We got the optional in all four. It may not work for your play style, but it does work.
1. No but the CE does, as do a lot of Tholians, and a fair number of other baddies in PvE.

2. It IS an issue because you HAVE to be Point Blank. Not wise Vs. those gates which will turn you into dust for being too close and you risk being tractored by the Cubes and Gate which is not a problem with Torps.

3. Maybe on something the size of a Cube but not a Sphere or anything that moves fast. They can easily out-run the mines and even if the mines hit you have no way of guaranteeing that they will hit the facing you want them to.

4. True, but what about all those that DO run from them? Torps do not have to worry about it at all and deal significant damage thus trumping the mines right out of the gate.

5. Hmmhhhhmmm... Suuure... Against the big stationary objects and Cubes the Romulan Hyper Torp deals WAY more damage than any DHC ever could. Against Spheres and the like A Fleet Quantum with Torp Spread III (which will NEVER MISS) will out perform both mine and even 4 DHC's with Rapid Fire or Scatter Volley. Most of the time I hit with my Torps I am dishing out damage in the 20~30 thousand damage range and if I get crits or all bare hull that number starts skyrocketing. The idea that another DHC is going to be better is folly not only because it simply does not deliver the needed extra punch (a DBB with BO 3 would be a lot closer) but also because of weapons power issues making the addition of too many energy weapons slowly counter productive.


1. That assumes they all hit and do not hit shields. Both are fairly notable assumptions.

3. It may be their most impressive benefit but I am afraid it is not really enough to make up for their failings. Though the Nakura Web Mine can start to come a bit closer for Crowd Control purposes but that is mostly useful in PvP sadly.


It is not that it does not work for my play style... It is also not that they cannot work at all... What I am trying to get across is just the plain and simple fact that while they are functional Torpedoes are just blatantly superior to the point where if you use mines you must do so with the understanding that you are using an inferior tool to accomplish the same task.

Case 'n Point: You COULD easily manage to be successful in an ESTF and still contribute using a Galaxy R if you really set it up correctly and are a Tactical Captain and dish out as much damage as possible but doing the same thing with a Kumari, Bug Ship, Armitage, or Fleet Patrol Escort will net you much faster times and much more killing power.

So again, I reiterate, Mines are a novelty weapon that is fun to play with but if you are going to use them do so with the full knowledge that you do so for the fun and form not for the effect or function.


Quote:
Originally Posted by twam View Post
There is one more benefit to mines: they don't use weapons power. Making them great for builds that don't use weapon power a lot. Say, sci build or torp boats. Or for those that do, for that matter. So they can keep higher weapon power for the other weapons.
I would say that if you intend to run a full Torp Boat setup and you do not use Mines with it then you are kind of silly. So I guess that at least is very worth mentioning. Torp boat setups really do well with mines as their turrets for all intents and purposes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 182
# 15
09-15-2013, 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hasukurobi View Post
1. No but the CE does, as do a lot of Tholians, and a fair number of other baddies in PvE.
____You clearly did not read the original post. Everything you're complaining about is discussed in it, and, as those who actually read it have noted, some in great detail.

____Further, you've missed the point of the entire build and the thread. This was conceived and built as a more active and slightly more dangerous way to play and still contribute to your team. Not because it was better than any other build or because I think it's the best way to play an ESTF. And I never mentioned the CE event at all.

____I built this because I was bored with the usual builds and doing the same thing over and over and over. So I was playing around and came up with this. And I think it's fun to fly.

____I wrote the thread because several people had commented on the fact that I was using mines and questions about how I was using them. And I thought they might have fun flying it just like I do.

As far as your complaints about the ability to contribute to the team using this build:
____I didn't throw this together last week, run a few ESTFS, make up a bunch of statistics, and then decide to write a book about the magic pill I'd just discovered. I grind dilithium with this build. I regularly get upper tier rewards. I rarely die, even when attacking a gate. And I'm not special, I'm not a miracle worker, prodigy, or hacker so anyone can do it.

So if you don't think it works, or you can't make it work, oh well. But the weapon specs speak for themselves, and the strategies I've detailed are tried and tested, not theory or guesswork.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,768
# 16
09-15-2013, 01:17 PM
Wow, when I read the title I thought someone was asking for advice on how/when/which mines to use and wheather it's plausible to use them.
Instead, I stumbled upon a very thorough ellaboration on the topic of equiping and using mines in STO.

Thanks for this, Qapla'!
Show your support for the Revamped Galaxy Class Exploration Cruiser here!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,930
# 17
09-15-2013, 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tggrinc View Post
____You clearly did not read the original post. Everything you're complaining about is discussed in it, and, as those who actually read it have noted, some in great detail.

____Further, you've missed the point of the entire build and the thread. This was conceived and built as a more active and slightly more dangerous way to play and still contribute to your team. Not because it was better than any other build or because I think it's the best way to play an ESTF. And I never mentioned the CE event at all.

____I built this because I was bored with the usual builds and doing the same thing over and over and over. So I was playing around and came up with this. And I think it's fun to fly.

____I wrote the thread because several people had commented on the fact that I was using mines and questions about how I was using them. And I thought they might have fun flying it just like I do.

As far as your complaints about the ability to contribute to the team using this build:
____I didn't throw this together last week, run a few ESTFS, make up a bunch of statistics, and then decide to write a book about the magic pill I'd just discovered. I grind dilithium with this build. I regularly get upper tier rewards. I rarely die, even when attacking a gate. And I'm not special, I'm not a miracle worker, prodigy, or hacker so anyone can do it.

So if you don't think it works, or you can't make it work, oh well. But the weapon specs speak for themselves, and the strategies I've detailed are tried and tested, not theory or guesswork.
Your strategy does work, I and several people in my fleet run mines to great effect. Personally I like to run Plasma, Chroniton, or Web Mines on my science vessel. One of my fleetmates loves tricobalt though, it's quite an asset against the IRW Valdore at the end of KASE. The singularities created by tricobalts knocks out the ship's Thalaron pulse. Naturally I don't have tactical buffs to remove shields, but I can chain tractor beam I and II + Tractor Beam shield stripping duty officer. Theta radiation for things like cubes. Thank you for such a great mine breakdown, certainly worth bookmarking. Oh, and your comment for dealing with Borg Heavy plasma torpedoes, have you ever considered the Hyper-Refracting Dual Tetryon Beam Bank from the Nukara Reputation system? It has a 100% chance to hit the next nearest target with half the damage of your beam bank. When fighting cubes that "nearest target" will always be their heavy plasma torpedoes.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,262
# 18
09-15-2013, 01:30 PM
I tend to use the Nukara rep web mines; they're pretty useful for slowing EPtE spheres and do good hull damage.

STAR TREK BATTLES - HIGH DPS PLAYERS NEED NOT APPY
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 182
# 19
09-15-2013, 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortiraomega View Post
your comment for dealing with Borg Heavy plasma torpedoes, have you ever considered the Hyper-Refracting Dual Tetryon Beam Bank from the Nukara Reputation system? It has a 100% chance to hit the next nearest target with half the damage of your beam bank. When fighting cubes that "nearest target" will always be their heavy plasma torpedoes.
Thanks for the kind remarks and the tip!
I haven't gotten very far in the Nukara rep and really haven't looked at what's in there yet. There's so many weapons and consoles in the game already I get lost easily trying to figure out what's useful.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 182
# 20
09-15-2013, 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reyan01 View Post
I tend to use the Nukara rep web mines; they're pretty useful for slowing EPtE spheres and do good hull damage.
I haven't tried the web mines yet. I went out of my way to get the tractor beam mines. (I HATE ground missions in this game) And I tried them on my cruiser in PVP but they were almost useless there. So I was going to try them in an ESTF just to see of they could handle the spheres. Web mines are next on my list to try.
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