Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,260
# 221
09-15-2013, 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
I have to disagree with that. I have to...just don't really have a choice. AtB's the same as it was...it has been recoded to be as effective as it is now, to be what it is now - what it is now, like many things that have been around for more than a wee while...are like they are because of everything Cryptic has coded since.

S6, S7, LoR...all the little things between and since...those were done on purpose. That's what's effed the game up.
Oh I agree 100% that its all the junk they have added passives / 10 trait slots. Ships that are more and more defensive but not really more and more dmging... yes 5 forward slots ships... still doesn't make up for everyone having 1.0+ shield mods and 7-10k more hull on average. Skill tree changes that have given everyone even more hull and more resists... it goes on and on.

None of that stuff is broken on its own... its that it has all been piled on... its Death by 1000 cuts. Nothing is contrary to the game mechanics... they all conform to the core idea... however the defensive stuff has been laid on thicker then the offensive stuff.... it also opens up a massive skill gap. As the dmg is still there and the dmg buffs are there if you know how to rig your ship... the difference between someone that knows what they are doing and someone that doesn't in terms of offense is obscene. The same can be true a little bit on the healing end... however more and more the stuff they are adding is simply passive... both resists and on crit heals... and even just by getting everyone into a lockbox or fleet ship.

The tech doffs however completely skirt the intended mechanics... at least just as much as what people claim was skirting mechanics by loading 2 copies of a skill. (something that involved sitting out a weapon for 15s completely) If that mechanic is an exploit... then after looking at exactly how Tech doffs effect multiple intended system cool downs that where intended to balance things.... it sure does look like an explit... Of course in the case of tech doffs... the devs knew exactly how it would be used... and frankly SO did the founding devs that coded STO.... I seem to remember getting double tapped by snix once. lmao

Honestly I am sounding strong against Aux To bat... and there is a reason.... I agree with the change to the Tac Buffs... I am fine with the end of double tap and not being allowed to combo HY patterns anymore.... I think its a bit stupid as it was the destruction of the core game with power levels... EPS levels for all (and the way weapon power drain was changed... with the old power drain mechanics and with out stupid power drain doffs doubel tapping would have been fine as only the use of a battary would have allowed it to happen making the run much more complicated... there is a reason mini max used to blow up 90% of the time previously and it wasn't just the tric feedback... it was also because 80% of the time his timing sucked)

Anyway back to the point... aux to bat is more broken then the double tap mechanic... when it comes down to it one of the worst aspects of the game right now is the inbalance in the doffs.... and Cryptic really needs one dev to sit down for a few days and tweak a bunch of them... making some (the sci ones) a bit more useful and reducing the strength of a handful of others. I think they never really looked at them much once they pushed them out the door.
Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,766
# 222
09-15-2013, 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer1 View Post
Are you using the Purple techies and Warp guys that work alongside AtB and EPtX? The reduce the cycle times of the EPtX and boost power to the batteries to up power dramatically when AtB is used, plus engie captain traits up power even more. It is possible to have 125+ power for periods of time when done right.

I'm would say its over powering, but it does help engi cruisers alot.
Yes I am, all that and more that I can use. My power levels are excellent and turn around is quick. I just do not find it OP and think AtB builds are one that helps Battle cruisers very much keep up with escorrs.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
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Posts: 7,163
# 223
09-15-2013, 06:28 PM
you make it sound like AtB circumvents global cool downs, that actually would be op. but it doesn't, it cant have better up time then 2 of the same skill. in fact on an AtB build you rottenly have between 3 and 7 seconds longer to wait depending on how AtB lines up, on skills with short cooldowns like tac skills.

AtB more broken then double taping? G8 B8 M8
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Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,157
# 224
09-15-2013, 06:33 PM
That falls under my math a few pages back...

It potentially gives you access to more abilities at the cost of gcds.

I just can't see an op a2b build
Chive on and prosper, eh?

My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,260
# 225
09-15-2013, 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
you make it sound like AtB circumvents global cool downs, that actually would be op. but it does doesn't, it cant have better up time then 2 of the same skill. in fact on an AtB build you rottenly have between 3 and 7 seconds longer to wait depending on how AtB lines up, on stills with short cooldowns like tac skills.

AtB more broken then double taping? G8 B8 M8
Think to your self...

Tech doffs.... designed to improve EPTx....
Chance based... need 3 to really ensure 100% uptime... on that one class of skills....

Cannon Doffs... Designed to improve Rapid and Scatter...
Chance based... need 3 to ensure 100% uptime on one copy.

Beam doffs but sub target and overload....
Chance based... need 3 to ensure 100% uptime... and they are split into 2 types.

Photonic doffs... designed to improve shockwave cool down.
Not chance based... but only effects that one specific skill... 2 required to hit global.

Tac Team doffs...
Not chance based... but 2 required to hit global

Sci Team doffs...
Not chance based... but 2 required to hit global

Engi Team doffs...
Not chance based... but 2 required to hit global

Deflector control doffs... Reduces cool down on Gravity well Tykens... and siphen I think
Chance based... need 2 perhaps 3 to really see any reliable effect

Attack Pattern doffs...
2 required with 2 patterns to bring things to global... 3 doesn't quite get some skills like omega to global. (3 tech doffs sure does though)

Torpedo doffs.... that reduce cool downs for HY and Spread
Don't exist

RSP doffs... that reduce the cool down on RSP.
Don't Exist

Extend doffs... that reduce the cool down on extend.
Don't exist


I have no doubt I forgot a bunch... but the point is....
3 tech doffs REPLACE ALL of those doffs... and provide the effect of doffs that don't exist... complete with ZERO RNG invovled... there is no chance component.

We can argue if they really make ships 10x better or not... but they do out class every other doff.
Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,157
# 226
09-15-2013, 06:43 PM
Except they are 30% for 3 purple...falls short of the global cooldown. if those seconds matter my question.
Chive on and prosper, eh?

My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,451
# 227
09-15-2013, 06:48 PM
Kind of had to chuckle, for a moment...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archived Post View Post
I knew Aux to Batts will be the next OP skill
10-06-2011, 07:24 AM
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,793
# 228
09-15-2013, 07:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Think to your self...

Cannon Doffs... Designed to improve Rapid and Scatter...
Chance based... need 3 to ensure 100% uptime on one copy.
The one doff I quite don't get. It's for tac captains, but most builds run with mult copies of cannon abilites. On the pther hand, I've made plenty EC selling these when they get scarce.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,766
# 229
09-15-2013, 08:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Think to your self...

Tech doffs.... designed to improve EPTx....
Chance based... need 3 to really ensure 100% uptime... on that one class of skills....

Cannon Doffs... Designed to improve Rapid and Scatter...
Chance based... need 3 to ensure 100% uptime on one copy.

Beam doffs but sub target and overload....
Chance based... need 3 to ensure 100% uptime... and they are split into 2 types.

Photonic doffs... designed to improve shockwave cool down.
Not chance based... but only effects that one specific skill... 2 required to hit global.

Tac Team doffs...
Not chance based... but 2 required to hit global

Sci Team doffs...
Not chance based... but 2 required to hit global

Engi Team doffs...
Not chance based... but 2 required to hit global

Deflector control doffs... Reduces cool down on Gravity well Tykens... and siphen I think
Chance based... need 2 perhaps 3 to really see any reliable effect

Attack Pattern doffs...
2 required with 2 patterns to bring things to global... 3 doesn't quite get some skills like omega to global. (3 tech doffs sure does though)

Torpedo doffs.... that reduce cool downs for HY and Spread
Don't exist

RSP doffs... that reduce the cool down on RSP.
Don't Exist

Extend doffs... that reduce the cool down on extend.
Don't exist


I have no doubt I forgot a bunch... but the point is....
3 tech doffs REPLACE ALL of those doffs... and provide the effect of doffs that don't exist... complete with ZERO RNG invovled... there is no chance component.

We can argue if they really make ships 10x better or not... but they do out class every other doff.
True, they do and they are great if one wishes to make a build that has lower cooldowns for specific abilities if one does not wish to suffer having a low Aux power pool availible whe running said bud without having to micromanage when the cooldown reduction effect is needed like one must a AtB build.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,451
# 230
09-15-2013, 08:06 PM
This is an AtB Cannon Excelsior that Drunk posted Dec 3rd, last year: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...&postcount=244

Even since the December, what have we seen change, eh?

You could drop one of the turrets for a KCB, so you can 2pc the secondary Borg for the OWA proc.

Drop the MACO shields for Elite Fleet Shields.

Drop the 0Point for Leech.

Drop the EPS for an E-Neut [+Turn].

Drop a SDO(BFI) DOFF for a WCE(Cleanse).

Drop a SDO(BFI) DOFF for a EWO(BO).

Drop EPtA1 for EPtE1.

Add in the Elite Fleet Core of your choice.

Trade the 2x Flow Caps for 2x Rom Flow Caps...your preference on the [HuH] or [ShH].

From New Rom Rep, grab Precision - Emergency Secondary Shielding - Quantum Singularity Manipulation.

From Omega Rep, grab Omega Weapon Training - Superior Shield Repair.

From Nukara Rep, grab Enhanced Shield Penetration - Aux Power Config: Offense - Refracting Tetryon Cascade.

Go with that potential mix of Elachi, Nanite, and Polarized Disruptors...

So what changed with the AtB? Nothing.

But wait some will say, you could do all that stuff on any ship.

Okay, so do this:

Take that original ship in a non-AtB form. Take that ship in an AtB form. Note the gap between the two ships. Add in all that stuff. Note the gap between the two ships.

That's where the issues are, imho - whether one is talking about AtB, BO, DHCs vs. Beam Arrays, etc, etc, etc. Cryptic tends to use fixed ratios. The more you increase things around those fixed ratios, while the ratios may remain in place - the value represented by the difference of those ratios becomes absurd.

Where once one might argue there were different ways to improve the performance of Cruisers, the manner in which everything else has changed - doesn't quite make that the case at this point.

That's not AtB's fault though...AtB shouldn't be nerfed to fix that issue...that causes folks to have to do everything and then some to use AtB.

Consider what they've been talking about with the Grav Well stuff, eh? Some folks at the extremes might see a nerf, eh? In general, it's being improved though, right?

They need to do that with almost everything in the game...damage, healing, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...deep breath...etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
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