Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,964
# 231
09-15-2013, 07:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Think to your self...

I have no doubt I forgot a bunch... but the point is....
3 tech doffs REPLACE ALL of those doffs... and provide the effect of doffs that don't exist... complete with ZERO RNG invovled... there is no chance component.

We can argue if they really make ships 10x better or not... but they do out class every other doff.
ah! here we go, how AtB is op on paper! translated into practice, on the ships that can run it, its shockingly not that simple

Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Tech doffs.... designed to improve EPTx....
Chance based... need 3 to really ensure 100% uptime... on that one class of skills....
damage control are perfect for ships that cant run AtB, and thus have all the sci and tac they need already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Cannon Doffs... Designed to improve Rapid and Scatter...
Chance based... need 3 to ensure 100% uptime on one copy.
non tech doff ships run 2 copies at the cost of 0 doffs already.


Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Photonic doffs... designed to improve shockwave cool down.
Not chance based... but only effects that one specific skill... 2 required to hit global.
a minority of AtB capable ships have a LTC sci slot, and on none of them that do is PWS at all useful. only PSW3 can stun long enough to get anything out of. if your on something that actually has a COM sci, running AtB is killing your aux levels, something a ship with a COM sci needs most.


Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Tac Team doffs...
Not chance based... but 2 required to hit global
ships that cant run AtB already have nothing better to slot then 2 copies, or they dont particularly need it. these were pretty much only used by cruisers that now run AtB now anyway.


Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Sci Team doffs...
Not chance based... but 2 required to hit global

Engi Team doffs...
Not chance based... but 2 required to hit global
ships that use these, having no aux would be way to much of a down side to even consider running AtB instead.


Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Deflector control doffs... Reduces cool down on Gravity well Tykens... and siphen I think
Chance based... need 2 perhaps 3 to really see any reliable effect
need aux to run these well, so tech doffs arent doing you any favors

Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Attack Pattern doffs...
2 required with 2 patterns to bring things to global... 3 doesn't quite get some skills like omega to global. (3 tech doffs sure does though)
3 of them get omega to global, with 2 you just have to run APD as well. for classic escorts that wouldn't need AtB to buff their tac skill uptime, the tweener ships that are good for nothing without AtB least have tech doffs to help them the amount they need help.


Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
RSP doffs... that reduce the cool down on RSP.
Don't Exist
a lot of ships that run 2 AtB builds might not even have room for RSP with all the mid level eng stations removed from play. those that do are slow as hell cruiser that cant avoid fire so they actually need rsp in the first place

Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Extend doffs... that reduce the cool down on extend.
Don't exist
nope, AtB does not help your ES much at all. its cooldown only starts after its duration ends, not durring the duration. 2 copies are the only way to global this.


on paper op=yes

in practice op=no

try coming up with an actual real build on a real ship using tech doffs thats op. thats as op as anything that can double tap. heres a hint, the best AtB builds are in my thread for you to choose from. please show us a real live build on a real live ship thats as op as you imply.
______________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordlalo View Post
I just wanted to say, I've never seen a more disturbing avatar
the pvp build and help thread
gateway links(should actually work now) -->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,964
# 232
09-15-2013, 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
This is an AtB Cannon Excelsior that Drunk posted Dec 3rd, last year: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...&postcount=244

Even since the December, what have we seen change, eh?
i really need to go back and update everything thats been posted pre LoR. hell, pre elatchi lockbox
______________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordlalo View Post
I just wanted to say, I've never seen a more disturbing avatar
the pvp build and help thread
gateway links(should actually work now) -->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,299
# 233
09-15-2013, 07:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
i really need to go back and update everything thats been posted pre LoR. hell, pre elatchi lockbox
It's mind-boggling how much stuff they've added...isn't it? Heck, I forgot the Inspirational Leader and Helmsman traits for that too...so much stuff.

I've been pretty consistent (sic) in the various AtB threads out there with my complaint - the inconsistency. Not about nerfing it - just making it consistent. I've got a feeling that Cryptic is going to nerf AtB though. Cause haven't we seen it elsewhere?

There's mechanic X.

Cryptic adds oodles of things (that generally generate revenue for them in some manner) that affect or are affected by mechanic X.

Folks start complaining about mechanic X.

Rather than address all of their revenue generating monstrosities...they nerf mechanic X instead.

In the end, this is going to lead to the game actually being P2W, eh? Cause all the core stuff will end up so nerfed up the wahzoo...that you'll need all the crap even to get a glimmer of the performance you had before they added all the garbage.

I can't help but picture Geko in a holodeck program as Uncle Scrooge swimming through a pool fool of gold coins...
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder
Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethaen, M.Qin - Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,055
# 234
09-15-2013, 09:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
a minority of AtB capable ships have a LTC sci slot, and on none of them that do is PWS at all useful. only PSW3 can stun long enough to get anything out of. if your on something that actually has a COM sci, running AtB is killing your aux levels, something a ship with a COM sci needs most.
My point is about the doff... not ships... regardless if your in a ship with Lt Cmd sci shockwave and Viral matrix are both great options as they DON'T scale with aux power at all... and you can run both Shockwave and Viral at global. I also forget to mention Mr. TBR... the skill that in fact benifits from being run at 5 aux.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
ships that cant run AtB already have nothing better to slot then 2 copies, or they dont particularly need it. these were pretty much only used by cruisers that now run AtB now anyway.
There about to end doubling up of tac buffs... trust me you are going to see a lot more beam cannon torp escorts and yes aux to bat is going to be a good option to keep them all going.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
ships that use these, having no aux would be way to much of a down side to even consider running AtB instead.
The team skills don't need aux power at all... so how does that make sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
need aux to run these well, so tech doffs arent doing you any favors
last I checked the Deflector skills all have 60s cool downs... so you use them at a high aux setting then you aux to bat... who cares if the aux power is gone for 10s... it will be back in 30s when you can use the skill again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
3 of them get omega to global, with 2 you just have to run APD as well. for classic escorts that wouldn't need AtB to buff their tac skill uptime, the tweener ships that are good for nothing without AtB least have tech doffs to help them the amount they need help.
Not the point my point is still valid... 3 tech doffs on any ship with more then 2 engi slots... is a better option then attack pattern doffs. Does the same job + everything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
a lot of ships that run 2 AtB builds might not even have room for RSP with all the mid level eng stations removed from play. those that do are slow as hell cruiser that cant avoid fire so they actually need rsp in the first place
As I have pointed out a few times 2 copies of Aux to bat is stupid. I should stop saying brings everything to global perhaps... I'm sorry brings everything to 2-6s of global depending on the skill.

Seriously wth would anyone waste a second slot for 2 copies of aux to bat... for 2s ? On any skill at 45s+ 1 copy is the same as 2 copies anyway.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
try coming up with an actual real build on a real ship using tech doffs thats op. thats as op as anything that can double tap. heres a hint, the best AtB builds are in my thread for you to choose from. please show us a real live build on a real live ship thats as op as you imply.
Doubling up tac abilities has been in the game for 4 years... aux to bat (in its current form with doffs) at most around a year or so I think.

If you want proof this is op... its simple... ask the pve kids if they are going to be pissed at us if this changes.... you mean they won't be able to knock out 30,000 dps in Infected any more in there aux to bat cruisers. lmao

Aux to bat has no defense its OP and everyone knows it.
/channel_join Tyler Durden

Last edited by antoniosalieri; 09-15-2013 at 09:10 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
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# 235
09-15-2013, 10:46 PM
I support drunk and his A2B builds! =)


Click here and here if you are interested in learning more about PvP.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,964
# 236
09-15-2013, 11:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
My point is about the doff... not ships... regardless if your in a ship with Lt Cmd sci shockwave and Viral matrix are both great options as they DON'T scale with aux power at all... and you can run both Shockwave and Viral at global. I also forget to mention Mr. TBR... the skill that in fact benifits from being run at 5 aux.
your going to have to come to terms with it not mattering how powerful they are on paper, and it only mattering what ships can actually do with them. its the only valid way to judge them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
There about to end doubling up of tac buffs... trust me you are going to see a lot more beam cannon torp escorts and yes aux to bat is going to be a good option to keep them all going.
what do you think the fix did? it wont prevent people useing them like normal, just from stacking 2 copies at once like you can with torp skills and BO currently. you can still have CRF with the same uptime as always, and use BO every 15 seconds. i somehow doubt most of the double tapers are going to add THY to thier alphas.


Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
The team skills don't need aux power at all... so how does that make sense.
a ship that wants ET or ST at its global with 1 copy is a healer. healers run primarily on aux heals. they would never run AtB builds, because that leaves you with no aux, and no AtS. this shouldn't be something i have to spell out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
last I checked the Deflector skills all have 60s cool downs... so you use them at a high aux setting then you aux to bat... who cares if the aux power is gone for 10s... it will be back in 30s when you can use the skill again.
1 copy of AtB tends to be hard to work with and hard to rely on. thats why so many opt for 2 copies. that leaves you always bad at using aux dependent skills.


Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Not the point my point is still valid... 3 tech doffs on any ship with more then 2 engi slots... is a better option then attack pattern doffs. Does the same job + everything else.
classic escorts, like the bug, andorian, defiant, steamrunner, and saber that use damage control and AP doffs are still, faster and better turning ships, not slow turning jack of all trade destroyers that need AtB to compete with them. even in the cases were you can use AtB on actual escorts, your APO, CRF, BO isnt doing more damage or spike then it is from a classic escort. theres no + magical beterness from using AtB.


Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
As I have pointed out a few times 2 copies of Aux to bat is stupid. I should stop saying brings everything to global perhaps... I'm sorry brings everything to 2-6s of global depending on the skill.

Seriously wth would anyone waste a second slot for 2 copies of aux to bat... for 2s ? On any skill at 45s+ 1 copy is the same as 2 copies anyway.
2 copies a waist, you cant be serious. you know, if i was this ignorant about a subject as your showing you are about this, i'd have the sense to not say anything about it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Doubling up tac abilities has been in the game for 4 years... aux to bat (in its current form with doffs) at most around a year or so I think.

If you want proof this is op... its simple... ask the pve kids if they are going to be pissed at us if this changes.... you mean they won't be able to knock out 30,000 dps in Infected any more in there aux to bat cruisers. lmao

Aux to bat has no defense its OP and everyone knows it.
are you scared of FAW pve AtB cruiser? is it the scariest thing in pvp? the most dangerous? no, they are a joke in pvp, and pve is a joke, so who cares if faw boats get big DPS there. everyone knows how much FAW blows up DPS numbers, its hitting multiple targets. that doesn't mean much when half the stf targets at any given time cant be damaged till you destroy everything else first. DHCs are still the fastest way to destroy everything in stfs. ive frankly delt with pure pve'ers that were more reasonable and logical then you are. at this point i can only hope your fainning deep ignorance to keep this thread bumped.
______________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordlalo View Post
I just wanted to say, I've never seen a more disturbing avatar
the pvp build and help thread
gateway links(should actually work now) -->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,055
# 237
09-16-2013, 12:50 AM
The aux to bat lovers are cute. I'll pretty much leave it at that... anyone that doesn't understand how these doffs are broken... really isn't ever going to get it. I am not saying they are destroying the game... neither did being able to load a second copy of a tac buff though. Just because something can be countered or isn't always the best way to play doesn't mean it isn't contrary to the game mechanics.

Hey the current dev that seems be doing anything close to balance fixes agrees... I think everyone enjoying the tech doff hax right now should be thankful Cryptic doesn't allow there devs to follow anything through... tech doffs where saved by having no one really paying any attention to them after they where dropped.

Remove or correct them now and incur the wrath of the PvE kids using tech doffs to ra*e borg. lol
/channel_join Tyler Durden
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,035
# 238
09-16-2013, 12:59 AM
What are cruisers going to do if they can't make A2B builds? Its the only way for them to do any real dmg so unless they make something else for cruisers to deal more dmg with or remove cruisers entirely then A2B shouldn't get nerfed.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,001
# 239
09-16-2013, 01:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by westx211 View Post
What are cruisers going to do if they can't make A2B builds? Its the only way for them to do any real dmg so unless they make something else for cruisers to deal more dmg with or remove cruisers entirely then A2B shouldn't get nerfed.
And that, my friend, is the underlying problem that should be fixed.

Rather than allow one gimmicky bending of game mechanics to persist and claim all is fine, some way should be found to make cruisers (especially non-tac-in-a-cruiser) more interesting.
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# 240
09-16-2013, 01:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post

i somehow doubt most of the double tapers are going to add THY to thier alphas.
Having Torps on a double tap actually makes sense, me and a few others use it, such as Emo.

But now that it is being nerfed, back to the drawing board
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
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