Career Officer
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 679
# 71
09-14-2013, 10:57 AM
For those who organise the random 5v5s in OPVP, this might be interesting: http://hilbertguide.com/leaderboard/balance.php

Just enter the name@handle data and it will try to give you a sensibly balanced match. (If it's not 10 players, it might suggest 5v3 instead of 4v4... not sure whether that's a bug or a feature.)

The balancing is done in a super simple fashion:

1) Make sure that the number of sci players in the teams does not differ by more than 1.
2) Attempt to balance DPS and (weighted) HPS among the teams.

Obviously there is much room for modification, i.e. attempting to balance according to the leaderboard scores, or use kill counts, but let's see whether this simple thing already allows for decent balancing.
http://hilbertguide.com

Last edited by mancom; 09-14-2013 at 12:58 PM.
Ensign
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 18
# 72
09-17-2013, 05:23 PM
I have to say that the idea behind this and all the effort is great and you have done a great job hilbert. But I think this leaderboard is unbiased as it is being used mainly by premades in pug stomping. All you have to do is take the last 10 matches and see it's premades against pugs.
I believe using this tool in this way is just a d**k measuring tool. I know of several occasions where some who have the tool have been beaten and yet there is no results on your board.
Don't get me wrong I think it's a fantastic tool, if used by all not just a select few when they feel like it.
Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 292
# 73
09-17-2013, 07:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eamoncoo View Post
I have to say that the idea behind this and all the effort is great and you have done a great job hilbert. But I think this leaderboard is unbiased as it is being used mainly by premades in pug stomping. All you have to do is take the last 10 matches and see it's premades against pugs.
I believe using this tool in this way is just a d**k measuring tool. I know of several occasions where some who have the tool have been beaten and yet there is no results on your board.
Don't get me wrong I think it's a fantastic tool, if used by all not just a select few when they feel like it.
I think you mean *biased*. And I agree, originally I loved the idea, however the board itself greatly discourages pugging in my opinion. You have to be very careful about what matches you take and not even run ACT/Client when you will be pugging if you're to maintain good standing on the board. The problem is it's completely luck of the draw that will determine you're score in a public arena match. Not your skill. This PvP is utterly team dependent so to have a leader board for individuals does not work.
I do like the stats, and the top tens, and it's great to have something interesting linked to our matches, it's just hard to take it seriously unless all you do is TD matches.
There are exceptions to the "premade benefiting most from the board" as there are some captains that just do enough damage solo to always place well.
However this exception is more rare in the case of pure support roles. If you have a very competent team with good survivability, you will need to heal less, thus having a lower score.
Also, there are currently not enough registered members in my opinion, to counter the possibility of scores purposely not being uploaded or manipulated.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 74
09-17-2013, 09:53 PM
It's the best Hilbert can come up with until Cryptic opens up the combat log to show more variables.

On the other note, I personally don't take the leaderboard seriously, I even got number 1 once. It is an ego sizer, which is why I never recorded any of my pug matches.

What's more important is whether you yourself are happy with your current build and skill level and never be content with being top of anything, there will always be room for improvement
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Career Officer
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 679
# 75
09-18-2013, 12:35 AM
Maybe it's time to reinstate the exponential dampening factor for low match counts. I initially removed this and replaced it by a hard cutoff for the daily/weekly/monthly lists because it leads to an odd and highly unintuitive disconnect between the average score and the individual match scores, but maybe it needs to go back in to give players an incentive to play lots of matches.

Regarding the "premades vs pugs": I think people are underestimating just how unbalanced pvp queue matches are in general. The average total kill count appears to be something like 18, which means 15-3.

And maybe I need to move to a relative-to-team scoring in combination with match weights, to better reward lost matches where one still was the best player in the losing team.
http://hilbertguide.com

Last edited by mancom; 09-18-2013 at 12:49 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,294
# 76
09-18-2013, 12:55 AM
Hilbert, for TD, working better and better bud.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 77
09-18-2013, 01:32 AM
Yeah, a big thanks to Hilbert for arranging this nevertheless, given the next to no help from cryptic and walled in combat lag.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 757
# 78
09-18-2013, 03:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by g0h4n4 View Post
Yeah, a big thanks to Hilbert for arranging this nevertheless, given the next to no help from cryptic and walled in combat lag.
Next to no help? Hilbert hasn't gotten ANY help at all from them.

Hilbert, thanks again for stepping up and doing something in your own free time that our developers continually ignore.
The first we heard of getting new PvP maps "soon" was in August of 2010. We're consistently told something will be coming with the "next" update. Absolutely nothing has come to PvP since launch.

I think it's finally time Cryptic stopped stringing us along, don't you?
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 422
# 79
09-18-2013, 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquitaine985 View Post
Is there really enough of us to make any real leaderboard worthwhile? It's a great idea of course but there's too few of us.
Yes i do believe they're are enough PvP players for any real leaderbords, the fact is it may not seems to enough pvp players but the reality is even us PvP players have got caught up in our own PvE grind to get resources to upgrade our toons like Omega, Nukara, New Romulus, Fleet Marks which is all exculsively on PvE queues. (well there is some fleet marks on PvP missions daily)

I bet you if PvP have it's own marks people will be playing on PvP. look at World of ******** for an example there's a reason why alot of players play it's PvP and why only a few people on STO PvP's at any given time... it's because in World of ******** PvP it rewards it players with an currency that can buy PvP tech which in STO PvP have no such rewards except for Dilithium.

the sad fact is Cryptic neglected STO's pvp forcing all players to grind in PvE queue's to get the best tech.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
# 80
09-18-2013, 08:44 AM
I've been playing WoT(anks) for a change. One of the interesting aspects of the game is the third-party stats tracking for win/loss, etc. (Soon to be supplemented by an official rating system.)

Discouraging to me as a noob, but it makes PvP more interesting by giving me some real metrics to work on.
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