Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,670
# 211
09-17-2013, 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by omegashinzon View Post
Right. Who are we to say what their intent is? This is why Bort's "It's not a conspiracy!" comment disturbs me. It could be simply the information he is being provided is inaccurate. Either way, I don't think we care. What we do care is these are not performing as they should. That is to say [virtually] no one bought these for their fighting capability and at some point, the "intended purpose" of their creation included a fair return on investment. Much as one creates a Ferengi toon for the discounts. I imagine if they reduced the Ferengi discount to .01%, similar backlash would ensue. It's a shame said posts are archived as I have been unable to locate even the introduction of Slavers in release notes. (Hoping something of intended design was mentioned) Either way, telling us something long after the fact does not make it true. We know why these were made, and we know they are paying a pittance of what they previously did. No compensation whatsoever was made. i.e. Less Contra but twice the dps or hull : Less Contra but up to 100k ec! It seems anything fun/profitable/efficient whatsoever in the game is eventually "nerf fixed". All this time and energy could easily be put towards making the game [mostly] free of bugs & more enjoyable which is almost never the case.

P.S. adding more ships and consoles and doo-dads is not improving the game.
I did edit that one it felt a little too harsh even though it was the truth.

Although from my experience with Cryptic whats happening is pretty simple concept. They give you item A to purchase. Once item A is no longer selling they will nerf item A down to a specific target stats and then come out with item B that is a little bit better than nerfed item A's stats. I am just assuming they think we won't notice and then take a shot in the dark to see if we forgot what was going on.

IMO opinion though with slavers it should be a reward box type system where when they do steal something its a box for you to open later of random loot table items that are something decent to get but at same time not something to be farmed. Thats only part I can agree on with them it should be supplemental but not investment. For anything in a game with all these currencies though any mark, EC, dilithium etc is a currency and anything that has potential for more is an investment which ever way you look at it.

Edit: So overall they need to fix the survival ability of these pets and pretty much of them all and then go and move on. For me I'm not calling it a conspiracy or anything I'm just saying I know what is happening and they can say whatever but it doesn't change much of the truth of the matter.

Last edited by zeuxidemus001; 09-17-2013 at 01:38 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 374
# 212
09-17-2013, 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeuxidemus001 View Post
I did edit that one it felt a little too harsh even though it was the truth.

Although from my experience with Cryptic whats happening is pretty simple concept. They give you item A to purchase. Once item A is no longer selling they will nerf item A down to a specific target stats and then come out with item B that is a little bit better than nerfed item A's stats. I am just assuming they think we won't notice and then take a shot in the dark to see if we forgot what was going on.

IMO opinion though with slavers it should be a reward box type system where when they do steal something its a box for you to open later of random loot table items that are something decent to get but at same time not something to be farmed. Thats only part I can agree on with them it should be supplemental but not investment. For anything in a game with all these currencies though any mark, EC, dilithium etc is a currency and anything that has potential for more is an investment which ever way you look at it.

Edit: So overall they need to fix the survival ability of these pets and pretty much of them all and then go and move on. For me I'm not calling it a conspiracy or anything I'm just saying I know what is happening and they can say whatever but it doesn't change much of the truth of the matter.
Agreed completely.

In regards to nerfing in general (specifically the Buy Item A, nerf, Sell item B part), I went ahead and took that topic somewhere else as to stay focused on Slavers here: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=856391

If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting. ~thlaylierah
So realistically, you only need to have the exact number of doffs that you need. ~leadme2kirk
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Posts: 2,670
# 213
09-17-2013, 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by omegashinzon View Post
Agreed completely.

In regards to nerfing in general (specifically the Buy Item A, nerf, Sell item B part), I went ahead and took that topic somewhere else as to stay focused on Slavers here: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=856391
Yeah that one belongs in another thread for that so this focus stays on slavers in this one.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,184
# 214
09-18-2013, 09:18 AM
http://sto.perfectworld.com/news/?p=567281 -Look under systems and you'll find the release note about the slavers

Let us also not forget that when the slavers were released in November 2011, the dilithium grind was nowhere near as great as it now. Starbases were added in July 2012 and embassies went live in March of this year, not to mention the reputation trees. How much would you venture to say a player spends on average in terms of dilithium between the rep tree shinies, starbases (ships, ground, and space gear included) and embassies?

I need to look up the numbers myself, but let's assume that the average player will only get one rep tree mark 12 space set. That's approximately 20K X 3 (60K) assuming each piece costs around 20K dilithium. Add to that about 30,000 dilithium donated to a fleet's starbase. Add another 30,000 for dilithium donated to a fleet embassy. Add to that the cost of purchasing another tier 5 ship-120K. Add to that the cost of purchasing the advanced orion slavers-30K X 2. That's 300,000 dilithium in total and that's just a modest estimate. Add in special fleet project dilithium donations, the cost of trading in doffs, and the cost of purchasing embassy doffs, and you're talking another potential 100K-200K dilithium.

Compare those numbers to before. Prior to starbases, you'd potentially could spend around 120K for that nice tier 5 ship you wanted and a few other goodies. Let's assume that an average player wouldn't spend more than 200K prior to season 6. Post LOR and assuming players are spending somewhere between 300k-400K on average, that's an increase of 50-100% in dilithium spent over how much it was before season 6. Yes, I know. I am making a lot of assumptions, but in the absence of hard data, we have to make some estimations ourselves.

So what do you think about this? Do you think it's fair for Cryptic to take away easier ways to get dilithium when the average amount of dilithium spent most certainly has shot up since before season 6? Is it difficult for you to stomach Borticuse's internal metric explanation given that demand for dilithium has gone up?
Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 449
# 215
09-18-2013, 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by knuhteb5 View Post
So what do you think about this? Do you think it's fair for Cryptic to take away easier ways to get dilithium when the average amount of dilithium spent most certainly has shot up since before season 6? Is it difficult for you to stomach Borticuse's internal metric explanation given that demand for dilithium has gone up?



It was never about Dilitium or Contraband for me.... It was always that slavers TOOK things.... now they RARELY take things....

Sure i made an angry post earlier about 2 provisions.... but out of 2 STFs? REALLY not a single Energy Credit... and ONLY 2 provisions? That's insanely ridiculous and by NO means is that a "buff" to what I used to get when I kept pumping out little mosquito to annoy the Borg.
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Posts: 1,184
# 216
09-18-2013, 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunseahl View Post
It was never about Dilitium or Contraband for me.... It was always that slavers TOOK things.... now they RARELY take things....

Sure i made an angry post earlier about 2 provisions.... but out of 2 STFs? REALLY not a single Energy Credit... and ONLY 2 provisions? That's insanely ridiculous and by NO means is that a "buff" to what I used to get when I kept pumping out little mosquito to annoy the Borg.
Ok, come on. You think you'd care about what it took if it didn't have to do with contraband? It never gathered enough EC for that to be a justification for purchasing them.
Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 449
# 217
09-19-2013, 07:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by knuhteb5 View Post
Ok, come on. You think you'd care about what it took if it didn't have to do with contraband? It never gathered enough EC for that to be a justification for purchasing them.
At first... yes it was about the contraband.... but then I realized that the contraband chance was minimal at best.... frankly i can make more contraband doing raiding doffs than i ever got from an STF.... Sure... it started with contraband but that was when I was naive about the competency of cryptic.... Now i just want them to actually raid stuff again.... I can make more money other ways but these slavers were a good source of commodities for Fleet holding management... until they channged
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 230
# 218
09-19-2013, 09:09 PM
What irks me about this, is that you pay quite a lot of dil for them, because the stats tell you they steal this'n that, but what do they do? Nothing. They're way too busy fighting to steal anything. If I wanted merely a fighter, there would have been better choices.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,184
# 219
09-19-2013, 10:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunseahl View Post
At first... yes it was about the contraband.... but then I realized that the contraband chance was minimal at best.... frankly i can make more contraband doing raiding doffs than i ever got from an STF.... Sure... it started with contraband but that was when I was naive about the competency of cryptic.... Now i just want them to actually raid stuff again.... I can make more money other ways but these slavers were a good source of commodities for Fleet holding management... until they channged
I never actually paid attention to the other stuff they stole for me since I thought it wouldn't be worth much compared to the contraband they could steal. Of course, this was a few months before the contraband drop was changed. I remember I was getting maybe 2-4 contraband every other stf. After the contraband change, I got about 1-2 dilithium in an entire night (assuming 1 stf every 20 minutes and playing for 3 hours, that's 1-2 dilithium per 9 stf's, an abysmal drop rate by any standard).

Since you know more about the commodities, I'll let you and others speak to that.

Oh, and we want our 60,000 dilithium back Cryptic because the slavers are worthless now. Thanks.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,670
# 220
09-19-2013, 11:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunseahl View Post
At first... yes it was about the contraband.... but then I realized that the contraband chance was minimal at best.... frankly i can make more contraband doing raiding doffs than i ever got from an STF.... Sure... it started with contraband but that was when I was naive about the competency of cryptic.... Now i just want them to actually raid stuff again.... I can make more money other ways but these slavers were a good source of commodities for Fleet holding management... until they channged
Reminds me one of my issues with the KDF is that there aren't any special KDF missions where you actually go raiding something. The pi canis bravo sorties doesn't count for me because I got burnt out on that years ago plus now with the dps race any setup I use kills freighters/fails mission. They should basically come up with some missions for raiding that can fill the void where the fed side has all those fed only ques for gear/dilithium and set it maybe to minimum of 2 and max of 5 since the stuff we do have nobody ever wants to do it. As well they should make a specific raiding type mission to where you can have higher chance of looting.
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