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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,243
# 451
09-14-2013, 10:42 AM
Interesting, VERY interesting to know. Thanks Renim for clearing that up. Worth keeping it in mind for the future.

Anywho, a bit off-topic with all that, but still good to know.

Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,495
# 452
09-14-2013, 05:21 PM
I'm not sure some folks quite realize just how long 5 seconds is. Grab an NPC...attack it, trigger some buff just as you do...then watch five seconds tic by. It's an eternity. Do it again, this time - during those 5 seconds...see how many defensive abilities you can trigger. /sigh
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,000
# 453
09-14-2013, 05:52 PM
If you think you know how long 5s can be, go play CS/CS:S. 5s is a round!

Just joking, a round is usually 20s-60s.
------
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.

Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 135
# 454
09-16-2013, 06:05 PM
if its wrong to come in andvape in 5 secodns how come its ok for the dev to come in and talk with us for 5 minutes?if pvp needs longer interaction before resolution, surely pvp nerf dsicussion does too. please pay close attanetion to the many comments that show the intended fix for this "problem" causes more harm than good. give it a re read u will find any numbr of possible route to go with less blowback.
Ensign
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 14
# 455
09-17-2013, 07:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adjudicatorhawk View Post
Double-tap is bad gameplay - period, end of story. It's a workaround for a shared cooldown that was always supposed to prevent exactly what's happening. It fixes a lot of things about this small problem - but the point that many are making (and that I agree with) is that this fix is just a drop in the moderately large bucket in the grand scheme of unwinding and overhauling combat math to make things feel fair for both aggressors and defenders, and make combat between evenly matched adversaries take a more reasonable amount of time. The trick to any of these changes is that our PvE combat is in a pretty good place - people can have a lot of fun flying just about any ship, and can contribute meaningfully to queued events and basically have a blast. Therefore, any change to combat math that also affects PvE is extremely high risk - so the knobs we have to balance and tweak PvP pacing are limited to those that don't have unintended side effects.

It's not an impossible job - it just requires a lot of care and time investment. If things are broken or things are really bad gameplay, it's easy to justify stepping in and fixing something immediately. If things aren't either of the above but are still less fun or less engaging than they could be, we obviously want to fix them - it just takes more work and more time to get the fix right and minimize any external side effects of that fix.

That's a bit of a ramble, but I know you guys like insight into why we change things we choose to change and how we make the game, so hopefully it interests you/makes sense to you. Please try to stay positive and constructive in responses - I'm happy to entertain discussions and talk about things openly, but if you start flaming or posting off-topic things, it's really hard to justify responding to something like that.

Wrong; Double-tap HAS BECOME bad gameplay since LoR came with battlecloak, 5 tactical consoles, superior infiltrator, superior operative, elachi dual beam banks and duty officers with 35% shield bypass. Until that time Bird of Prey used it, but they had minus one tactical console and minus 6% Crth compared to Warbirds (Klingons also don't have space traits). BoP captains won't complain about the nerf (and it is a nerf caused by greed, at least Cryptic must asume some responsability for the power creep) since they already use torpedos.
But it's not the double Beam Overload nerf that bothers me; it's the 5 seconds discussion. In case you forgot, there's a whole class called Raider, that hasn't yet been deleted. It stil exists and one of the purposes of this class is actually to have a chance to get kills in that 5 seconds window. My questions is : will that chance be totaly eliminated in future updates ?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 594
# 456
09-17-2013, 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcscipio View Post
Wrong; Double-tap HAS BECOME bad gameplay since LoR came with battlecloak, 5 tactical consoles, superior infiltrator, superior operative, elachi dual beam banks and duty officers with 35% shield bypass. Until that time Bird of Prey used it, but they had minus one tactical console and minus 6% Crth compared to Warbirds (Klingons also don't have space traits). BoP captains won't complain about the nerf (and it is a nerf caused by greed, at least Cryptic must asume some responsability for the power creep) since they already use torpedos.
But it's not the double Beam Overload nerf that bothers me; it's the 5 seconds discussion. In case you forgot, there's a whole class called Raider, that hasn't yet been deleted. It stil exists and one of the purposes of this class is actually to have a chance to get kills in that 5 seconds window. My questions is : will that chance be totaly eliminated in future updates ?
Is it bad gameplay? Ask your self what the current meta game is at the moment to need to double tap.

Double tapping is skillful in premades and often difficult, insta popping people in Kerrat whil engaging borg doesn't count and shouldn't. It takes more 5 secs to kill someone. You failed to take into account the minute or so prepping the target, watching for his buffs, coordination e.t.c.

the execution may be quick but the coordination even longer. You can kill with a all cannon setup in a premade, just use SNB.

Ask yourself also will 5sec vaping still happen.. (the answer to this will be yes), and more people will still be crying out for nerfs, o a 4dhc crf3 killed me... nerf it.

You have to adapt your build to the current or future meta game or get left behind
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
/channel_join Tyler Durden for Organised Balanced PVP matches
Ensign
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 14
# 457
09-17-2013, 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by g0h4n4 View Post
Is it bad gameplay? Ask your self what the current meta game is at the moment to need to double tap.

Double tapping is skillful in premades and often difficult, insta popping people in Kerrat whil engaging borg doesn't count and shouldn't. It takes more 5 secs to kill someone. You failed to take into account the minute or so prepping the target, watching for his buffs, coordination e.t.c.

the execution may be quick but the coordination even longer. You can kill with a all cannon setup in a premade, just use SNB.

Ask yourself also will 5sec vaping still happen.. (the answer to this will be yes), and more people will still be crying out for nerfs, o a 4dhc crf3 killed me... nerf it.

You have to adapt your build to the current or future meta game or get left behind
My 3 tactical consoles Fleet Norgh needs double tap to strip one side of the shilelds so i could get in some torps. Fleet Dhelan/Fleet Ha'feh with 5 tactical consoles, extra 6 crth, 3x BO doffs, elachi DBB doesn even need torps; or stuns, or holds ; accx3 and maybe the nukara console nulifies APO3 defense . TT, no shield utility.
Oh, people will stil get killed under 5 seconds.
I will repeat some points in case you have not read my entire last post:

"Cryptic must asume some responsability for the power creep"

"Raider... It stil exists... purpose.. to have a chance to get kills in that 5 seconds window "

"will that chance (chance to get kills in that 5 seconds window) be totaly eliminated in future updates ?"
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 594
# 458
09-17-2013, 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcscipio View Post
My 3 tactical consoles Fleet Norgh needs double tap to strip one side of the shilelds so i could get in some torps. Fleet Dhelan/Fleet Ha'feh with 5 tactical consoles, extra 6 crth, 3x BO doffs, elachi DBB doesn even need torps; or stuns, or holds ; accx3 and maybe the nukara console nulifies APO3 defense . TT, no shield utility.
Oh, people will stil get killed under 5 seconds.
I will repeat some points in case you have not read my entire last post:

"Cryptic must asume some responsability for the power creep"

"Raider... It stil exists... purpose.. to have a chance to get kills in that 5 seconds window "

"will that chance (chance to get kills in that 5 seconds window) be totaly eliminated in future updates ?"
well the simple answer will be No to all since cryptic has no interest in any of them except to nerf for the 'casual' player
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
/channel_join Tyler Durden for Organised Balanced PVP matches
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,694
# 459
09-18-2013, 02:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adjudicatorhawk View Post
Technician procs should only be affecting Bridge Officer abilities as far as I'm aware, although this proc predates my tenure here so I could be wrong on that.
The D'Kora EMP burst being affected by A2B has been known about for ages now. Seems everyone knows about it apart from you. Pathetic really.
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,243
# 460
09-18-2013, 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeybacon90 View Post
The D'Kora EMP burst being affected by A2B has been known about for ages now. Seems everyone knows about it apart from you. Pathetic really.
Insulting Hawk isn't going to help our case.

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