Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 292
# 11
09-19-2013, 11:37 PM
I do find the quad cannons work wonders with my valdore console. Concerning that, its the equivalent of running two DCs, proc wise.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 441
# 12
09-20-2013, 02:27 AM
if your flying around while using cannons, then our doing it wrong, to get the most from cannons you need to remain at roughly 5k from your target, then move forward and backwards slowely to keep your defence running, I have no issue with quads infact I use them alot along with plasma DC, imo DHC aint worth the extra power drain for a tiny bit more crit or damage.

(sits back and awaits the inevatable abuse and commenst saying how awfully wrong I am)
Jorhana Kreig: KDF, Tal'is: Romulan Fed, Shona'a: Romulan KDF, Johan Paul Kreig: Fed
I.R.W. Valdore gives 0 (132283) Radiation Damage to Tal'is with Thalaron Pulse. ==> Tal'is deals 132283 Special Damage to Tal'is with Immunity Matrix

Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 763
# 13
09-20-2013, 04:30 AM
There is actually a difference with quad plasma cannons vs the other quads in that the [dmg]x4 mod increases the plasma DoT burn same with all plasma based weapons probably why plasma torpedos with a [dmg]x3 are the most expensive on the exchange last i checked.
There is also the reasoning that due to the firing cycles DC will proc more than DHC but meh maybe maybe not.
running atm: Plasma DHC x2, Plasma Quads, Bio-Molecular warhead, and Caustic Plasma turrets x3 on the retrofit carrier with the singularity console working great as far as the Elachi are concerned, not noticing much if any power drain running a Fleet Hyper-Stabilized Singularity core (bonus to shields and engines). ymmv though
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,324
# 14
09-20-2013, 06:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johankreig View Post
if your flying around while using cannons, then our doing it wrong, to get the most from cannons you need to remain at roughly 5k from your target, then move forward and backwards slowely to keep your defence running, I have no issue with quads infact I use them alot along with plasma DC, imo DHC aint worth the extra power drain for a tiny bit more crit or damage.

(sits back and awaits the inevatable abuse and commenst saying how awfully wrong I am)
Flying backwards drains power from all systems. So less speed & Defense, less damage, less shield resist and less Aux based heals.

Flying in guns blazing (CRF/CSV) and flying out when it ends and turning around within the 5s downtime and 5k range is a superior tactic IMO.

Also most PVE enemies should die in a single pass outside of group activities.

Sorry for not abusing you. I'm sure somebody will come along and be a jerk.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Captain
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 547
# 15
09-20-2013, 07:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warmaker001b View Post
This isn't a PVE vs PVP issue with these weapons.
Sure it is. What point is there to min/maxing your loadout for anything other than PvP and/or the endgame STF content? Does it really matter if the Elachi escort in front of me dies in 5 seconds or 10 when I'm soloing?

I like the quads, and I plan on using them for awhile. The purpose of this thread was to make sure I was using what I have effectively. Don't misunderstand me, I get where you're coming from, it just isn't important to my current playstyle. Eventually I'll hit 50, and maybe someday I'll actually do some of the STF content. But I don't see it happening soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by warmaker001b View Post
This has everything to do with how bad ALL Quad Cannons suck compared to practically any other weapon out there.
Hmm, guess I'll go back to that all-turret rainbow build I was considering.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 441
# 16
09-20-2013, 07:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dknight0001 View Post
Flying backwards drains power from all systems. So less speed & Defense, less damage, less shield resist and less Aux based heals.

Flying in guns blazing (CRF/CSV) and flying out when it ends and turning around within the 5s downtime and 5k range is a superior tactic IMO.

Also most PVE enemies should die in a single pass outside of group activities.

Sorry for not abusing you. I'm sure somebody will come along and be a jerk.
I was always told that you cant do attack runs (my prefered tactic) with cannons as you significantly reduce your dps output, if this is incorrect I will be glad as I much prefer to do attack runs and hit and fade atacks than cannon boating , the only issue arrises when providing static defence of a target in a stf such as the gate on khitomer or the kang on cure, i generaly remail still or move back and forth.
Jorhana Kreig: KDF, Tal'is: Romulan Fed, Shona'a: Romulan KDF, Johan Paul Kreig: Fed
I.R.W. Valdore gives 0 (132283) Radiation Damage to Tal'is with Thalaron Pulse. ==> Tal'is deals 132283 Special Damage to Tal'is with Immunity Matrix

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 245
# 17
09-20-2013, 07:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warmaker001b View Post
This has everything to do with how bad ALL Quad Cannons suck compared to practically any other weapon out there.
The quad cannons are just fine... no problem with them at all.

PvE is so easy these days that a decent player can do well in a free ship with free gear from missions.

Fly what you want to fly... use what you want to use... it's not the ship or the gear, but the skill and understanding of play that matters.

Take away the DOFFs, 10-console superships, universal toys and fleet gear... most of the so-called "elite" players wouldn't know what to do.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,324
# 18
09-20-2013, 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johankreig View Post
I was always told that you cant do attack runs (my prefered tactic) with cannons as you significantly reduce your dps output, if this is incorrect I will be glad as I much prefer to do attack runs and hit and fade atacks than cannon boating , the only issue arrises when providing static defence of a target in a stf such as the gate on khitomer or the kang on cure, i generaly remail still or move back and forth.
I really am against this mentality of guarding the Gate in KASE means parking and opening fire when something spawns.

After killing the Probes I go help DPS the Transformers, using Evasive Manuvers to get back to the probes. With Battle Cloak I can get multiple decloak bonuses.

With the Kang I prefer to kill the BoPs side on and as close to their cubes as possible.

Never missed a probe or let something through on the Kang.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,114
# 19
09-20-2013, 06:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by royalsovereign View Post
Sure it is. What point is there to min/maxing your loadout for anything other than PvP and/or the endgame STF content? Does it really matter if the Elachi escort in front of me dies in 5 seconds or 10 when I'm soloing?

I like the quads, and I plan on using them for awhile. The purpose of this thread was to make sure I was using what I have effectively. Don't misunderstand me, I get where you're coming from, it just isn't important to my current playstyle. Eventually I'll hit 50, and maybe someday I'll actually do some of the STF content. But I don't see it happening soon.

Hmm, guess I'll go back to that all-turret rainbow build I was considering.
You yourself gave the reasons why the Quad Cannon mediocrity is not just a PVP issue.

There are places in this game where it's not simple multiplayer cooperation like STFs / ESTFs. It is about competitive results. Results where how much damage you deal during the mission is compared to other players. Fed "Starbase 24" and KDF "Federation Minefield" come immediately to mind. They are limited, yes, but many people do dive into there, esp. Fed side with SB24.

In such a case, even a Common DHC at Mk X-XI has the upper hand in competitiveness over the Quad Cannons. That Common quality DHC will:
* Have an inherent +10% CritD damage bonus, which adds up after a while with Tacs & Escorts blazing away. This mod is naturally found in ALL DHCs.
* Not drain your ENG Subsystem Power, allowing faster speeds (and higher bonus defense), better turn rates, all allowing you to be better protected and swing your weapons on target that much faster to blaze away again.

And that's for a Common Quality DHC. If you throw even an Uncommon DHC with either Acc (more hits on target), CritH (higher chance for Critical hits), CritD (higher Critical Damage bonus, on top of the inherent DHC CritD+10%). PVP may highly prefer Acc over everything, but in PVE, ANY of these mods in any number are far, far, FAR superior than the [Dmg] mods, which are found in x4 on all Quad Cannons.

And it gets even worse if you compare Quad Cannons to Rare & Very Rare quality DHCs.

You may scoff at Min/Maxing, but if you enter instances where you are competing against other players, even in the same side, with everything else being equal (including player skill), your Quad Cannons will leave you in a less competitive state.

If you don't care about winning against the competition, then by all means, do go on with the Quad Cannons. If you DO care about winning against the competition (again, not necessarily PVP), then you need to avoid Quad Cannons... because winning gets you the better rewards.

If you can kill your target in 5 seconds with other weapons compared to 10 seconds with the Quads (as you say), then you can quickly turn to another target(s) and apply that faster killing speed. A faster killing speed that other weapons will do than any Quad Cannon.

Last edited by warmaker001b; 09-20-2013 at 06:27 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,114
# 20
09-20-2013, 06:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsaris View Post
Take away the DOFFs, 10-console superships, universal toys and fleet gear... most of the so-called "elite" players wouldn't know what to do.
Sure we would know what to do without the big toys you mention. If we know the game well enough to build a good ship and be successful in PVP and / or PVE with it, then you know how to build it with "just the basics."
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