Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,000
# 21
09-22-2013, 05:34 AM
I think most people would love to have a T5 conni or at least the skin for their cruisers tbh =)

Don't get me wrong I'm all for people having an advantage if they pay for it. The whole game works on that, you just pay in different way. You can either buy Zen with cash and get anything you want or trade it for that or you can pay in time invested in the game and get it through grinding and negotiating.

However there is a difference between having an advantage and having such an advantage that it is not able to be overcome by any means other than to pay money for something. For example the quad cannons have the highest DPS in the game, they're not good for PvP as they have no accuracy mods and they are not so much better that it makes all other cannons obsolete. They're a nice advantage that you have for paying for them. If anything they were outclassed by everything at end game and got buffed because the devs felt it did not convey enough of an advantage.

The point is we all get advantages for paying, some of the best consoles are all pay for consoles, you get a much better ship at your rank by paying and it will get you through content easier. At end game some of the premium items like spiral waves are still premium, carrier pets exclusive to certain ships are not made free to all, you still have to pay and they're damn good. Hell the JHAS was the most OP escort for a good 2 years now and when fleet ships came out they buffed it and all other special ships.

Without knowing what it was that got nerfed I can't comment but I'm sorry you feel this way. Not all nerfs are made because it's unfair though, some are nerfed because they're clearly breaking intended uses or gameplay, see BO and tric nerf.
------
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.

Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,451
# 22
09-22-2013, 07:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpharma View Post
I think most people would love to have a T5 conni or at least the skin for their cruisers tbh =)

Don't get me wrong I'm all for people having an advantage if they pay for it. The whole game works on that, you just pay in different way. You can either buy Zen with cash and get anything you want or trade it for that or you can pay in time invested in the game and get it through grinding and negotiating.

However there is a difference between having an advantage and having such an advantage that it is not able to be overcome by any means other than to pay money for something. For example the quad cannons have the highest DPS in the game, they're not good for PvP as they have no accuracy mods and they are not so much better that it makes all other cannons obsolete. They're a nice advantage that you have for paying for them. If anything they were outclassed by everything at end game and got buffed because the devs felt it did not convey enough of an advantage.

The point is we all get advantages for paying, some of the best consoles are all pay for consoles, you get a much better ship at your rank by paying and it will get you through content easier. At end game some of the premium items like spiral waves are still premium, carrier pets exclusive to certain ships are not made free to all, you still have to pay and they're damn good. Hell the JHAS was the most OP escort for a good 2 years now and when fleet ships came out they buffed it and all other special ships.

Without knowing what it was that got nerfed I can't comment but I'm sorry you feel this way. Not all nerfs are made because it's unfair though, some are nerfed because they're clearly breaking intended uses or gameplay, see BO and tric nerf.
Sorry for going off topic for a min, but like my sig. says it takes a professional Caitian to make the magic happen :3

I have an old "degraded by patches" Galaxy class refit from cstore back in the day, the only advantage it had was the pet but I dont use that in a pvp to keep my crew count. When that scimitar first came out it was OP'd and Caitian Picards ship tanked the whole session, it was unable to get past my build! Even with the super weapon!! It actualy took 2 of them and 20 min to wear me down, so it took a mix of being a season vet and having a good build, OP stuff is just the quick way....but the Caitian way will always be best! =^.^=


btw, the ship uses the old borg set....nothing new and OP'd for Defense
Current state of STO "video link"

How Picard dealt with ARC! ...STO
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,750
# 23
09-22-2013, 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by catstarsto View Post
Just because someone benefits from something in the game that you don't, why do you think they shouldn't ether?
Haha; funny how you manage to try and make this into a 'jealousy' thingy. Yeah, no. You forgot the word 'unduly.' As in "Someone unduly benefits from something in the game." Essentially, what you want is to leech off Cryptic's honest mistakes. You're not getting your wish.

Quote:
Civil Law, that's a ridiculous statement, if you get extra shrimp in your meal or it tastes better then last time, the customer isn't a thief!
No need to flaunt your ignorance with the Law. The Civil Code and the Penal Code are two entirely different animals.

Quote:
I picture Cryptic as a jewelry store and when someone buys a Rolex, a few people come out of no where yelling that its good for them so the clerk takes the watch back and hits a few times with a hammer then gives it back, "Patched update" then the instigators walk off smiling now that their work is done...they showed those upstarts, buying a better watch then them!
Hate to bring it to you, but this scenario is actually a textbook case: jewelry store, by accident, hands someone a very rare, antique watch, whereas he was suppoosed to get just a regular one. The short of it: you don't get to keep it. Sorry. The deciding matter being whether or not the buyer acted 'in good faith.' If you get a Valdore console, that clearly operates way beyond what's reasonable (for its price), just because the the devs made an obvious boo-boo, then no, you don't get to keep it. Deal with it.

I'm still exactly with naevius on this: it's appalling peeps even think this is a good idea. Self-entitlement at its ugliest.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,451
# 24
09-22-2013, 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo View Post
Haha; funny how you manage to try and make this into a 'jealousy' thingy. Yeah, no. You forgot the word 'unduly.' As in "Someone unduly benefits from something in the game." Essentially, what you want is to leech off Cryptic's honest mistakes. You're not getting your wish.



No need to flaunt your ignorance with the Law. The Civil Code and the Penal Code are two entirely different animals.



Hate to bring it to you, but this scenario is actually a textbook case: jewelry store, by accident, hands someone a very rare, antique watch, whereas he was suppoosed to get just a regular one. The short of it: you don't get to keep it. Sorry. The deciding matter being whether or not the buyer acted 'in good faith.' If you get a Valdore console, that clearly operates way beyond what's reasonable (for its price), just because the the devs made an obvious boo-boo, then no, you don't get to keep it. Deal with it.

I'm still exactly with naevius on this: it's appalling peeps even think this is a good idea. Self-entitlement at its ugliest.
I still say, what business is it of yours anyways, your not Q. Thank goodness your not a Dev. To make someone the bad guy for getting something better in quality then was intended by the seller is usually a plus to the sellers name! But it functions as it was intended. Or did before you guys got your way! I dont have that console and dont need one to beat a scimitar that has it. Its only OP'd if your not built to take it on, your nerf baiting is whats ugly. IF you purchased it, then yes, you are Entitled to get what you paid for, the scimitar was meant to be a boss ship watch "Nemesis", whining about something you can also buy doesnt change the truth of your mean spirited envy of anothers purchases! We dont need a self-appointed game police turning this community into a Gestapo ridden nerf fest. Get over yourself and just play the game and let others do so as well without fear of your kinds overshadowing arrogance! No one likes a spoil sport or bully! Have you ever noticed that people that think like you, are often the sneaky (Rob Snyder style snickering) villains in many books, shows and movies? We are here to have fun and enjoy the game and all it has to offer, leave the BS from RL out of it!

But I have a feeling you are determined to ruin what ever device you dont have, so that the ones you do use will still allow you to crow. Calling paying customers Self entitled with such distaste shows how spiteful you really are. Like I said before, even if someone had an advantage over me and i could never beat em, i would think it was a cool, not try to destroy it from under him/her I have better character then that! I dont need to display my ego in a game, because its just a game not my full social life!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvjCG_p9rl4

EDIT: And yes, im not unbeatable...I have lost before, even to another with an OP item, those andorian guns ate up my ferisans shields and i couldnt beat them. But it wasent the end of the world, and pushed for him to join our fleets FED vs KDF contest, so he could lead the team that my fleet was going against, since he was a stronge player....it made for a more epic battle overall! I think like Goku not Freeza!
Current state of STO "video link"

How Picard dealt with ARC! ...STO

Last edited by catstarsto; 09-22-2013 at 11:58 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,750
# 25
09-22-2013, 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by catstarsto View Post
(*removed 'special snowflake' color-text)
But I have a feeling you are determined to ruin what ever device you dont have, so that the ones you do use will still allow you to crow. Calling paying customers Self entitled with such distaste shows how spiteful you really are.
You're starting to lose it a bit. Really.

And, in case you hadn't noticed, I'm a paying customer too. Never felt the need, though, to keep an item that was clearly way OP. And legally, much like the spoon, 'There is no console.' It's just game mechanics and stats, which Cryptic is free to change at any time they see fit.

And LOL @ me being "determined to ruin what ever device you dont have." And it's kinda cute you're thining I allegedly want to do so in order to win with the consoles I already have, apparently. Whereas it is painfully clear, from the get-go, the ony reason ppl want to keep their broken stuff, is *precisely* because it gives them an undue advantage!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,750
# 26
09-22-2013, 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by catstarsto View Post
I still say, what business is it of yours anyways, your not Q. Thank goodness your not a Dev.
Me being a dev would actually make no difference whatsoever: you would not get to keep broken, OP stuff; much like the current devs are not letting you keep it either. <-- There's your Q.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,451
# 27
09-22-2013, 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo View Post
You're starting to lose it a bit. Really.

And, in case you hadn't noticed, I'm a paying customer too. Never felt the need, though, to keep an item that was clearly way OP. And legally, much like the spoon, 'There is no console.' It's just game mechanics and stats, which Cryptic is free to change at any time they see fit.

And LOL @ me being "determined to ruin what ever device you dont have." And it's kinda cute you're thining I allegedly want to do so in order to win with the consoles I already have, apparently. Whereas it is painfully clear, from the get-go, the ony reason ppl want to keep their broken stuff, is *precisely* because it gives them an undue advantage!
I'm aggravated at the fact that your patronizing attempts to make sport of me for standing up for fellow gamers, is funny to you. Because its nothing you invested into, I would imagine aside from just buying a console, they also would respec and buy weapons and what ever to build off of it. But from such a comment I can see what you are doing and I did fall into your thread derailment trap. Well played...
Current state of STO "video link"

How Picard dealt with ARC! ...STO
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,000
# 28
09-22-2013, 03:12 PM
Ok both of you stop it now. This isn't getting anyone anywhere and the OP is answered. He looked at it from another point of view and decided to reconsider his stance whether you agree with it or not.

If both of you want to have this cat fight then do it in another thread or better yet create one to do it in.
------
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.

Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 374
# 29
09-25-2013, 12:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpharma View Post
I know it sucks when we get things nerfed or fixed and it makes once viable things less so etc. It sucks even more when you take an absence and come back to find all your top of the line gear is not so great. Though fixes and nerfs do have to be for all otherwise you do risk segregating the community and putting off new customers.

I can't remember seeing you around the forums for a while so I'm guessing you took a break and came back. I hope you're not finding it too off putting if this is so.


Meh, I've been lurking. My lack of posting unless I'm feeling really motivated is mostly due to being put off by the amount of negativity here. Down time for patches are my peak hours. :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by catstarsto View Post
(text omitted for size)
I hate getting onto people like this, but lengths that people go to in this forum has left me in awe. I picture Cryptic as a jewelry store and when someone buys a Rolex, a few people come out of no where yelling that its good for them so the clerk takes the watch back and hits a few times with a hammer then gives it back, "Patched update" then the instigators walk off smiling now that their work is done... ...
Haha, priceless. I get that impression too sometimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo View Post
...
Hate to bring it to you, but this scenario is actually a textbook case: jewelry store, by accident, hands someone a very rare, antique watch, whereas he was suppoosed to get just a regular one. The short of it: you don't get to keep it. Sorry. The deciding matter being whether or not the buyer acted 'in good faith.' If you get a Valdore console, that clearly operates way beyond what's reasonable (for its price), just because the the devs made an obvious boo-boo, then no, you don't get to keep it. Deal with it.

I'm still exactly with naevius on this: it's appalling peeps even think this is a good idea. Self-entitlement at its ugliest.
As a rule, I don't reply to "deal-wif-it" posters anymore, but in this case I don't think we disagree as much as you may have not fully understood. In fact if you go back and read my original idea again, you'll see that the situation you described would not apply. That would be considered a fix. I mean if you buy watch A, exactly as described, functioning perfectly, and get exactly-precisely that; then the watch maker comes to your house and smashes it with CatStar's hypothetical hammer. That is an after the fact nerf to the quality of something, not a fix. At any rate, the fact you and others don't agree shows it wouldn't be a good idea. Were I the one calling the shots, it would happen, but alas without universal support, my idea doesn't stand a chance. I'm burying this one in the "oh well" folder..

If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting. ~thlaylierah
So realistically, you only need to have the exact number of doffs that you need. ~leadme2kirk
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,750
# 30
09-25-2013, 01:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by omegashinzon View Post
As a rule, I don't reply to "deal-wif-it" posters anymore, but in this case I don't think we disagree as much as you may have not fully understood. In fact if you go back and read my original idea again, you'll see that the situation you described would not apply. That would be considered a fix. I mean if you buy watch A, exactly as described, functioning perfectly, and get exactly-precisely that; then the watch maker comes to your house and smashes it with CatStar's hypothetical hammer. That is an after the fact nerf to the quality of something, not a fix. At any rate, the fact you and others don't agree shows it wouldn't be a good idea. Were I the one calling the shots, it would happen, but alas without universal support, my idea doesn't stand a chance. I'm burying this one in the "oh well" folder..

I can empathize with you for "being put off by the amount of negativity here." But, at the same time, I can also see why the 'negativity' is building up, as it were. Generalizing a bit, I think people find it unethical to see some folks wanting to benefit from honest mistakes on Cryptic's end: and the more seriously it's being proposed, the stronger the push-back.

To stay with the watch analogy, a Console in STO, unlike an apparatus in RL, is not an island entire of itself. Within STO, any Console which is in any way, shape, or form found to be OP, or otherwise greatly disturbs a balance, can no longer be said to 'function perfectly,' for that reason alone. Because, for a Console in STO to work properly, it needs to be in more-or-less state of equilibrium with the other Consoles. Call it a Core game Rule, akin to Kiri-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics, "Nothing OP can exist." Therefore, everything OP, per definition, needs to be fixed -- lest the entire game breaks.

So, within this framework where balance is a conditio-sine-qua-non, your watch, when found to be, you know, over-powered, is not simply 'functioning perfectly' any more, but broken.

From time to time, Cryptic will release a Console with OP stats; or an ability that now turns out to be too OP, as a result of something else that got changed. Attack Pattern Alpha is a good example: its "(50%) Critical Severity for 30 sec," since it was expressed as a percentage, now, IMHO, gives too much to Roms, who can boost CrtD insanely high to begin with. So, ever-so often, unanticipated side effects like this will occur. And I feel Cryptc is on perfectly solid ground, both ethically as game-mechanics wise, to simply adjust values as required to restore balance again.
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