Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,000
# 81
09-26-2013, 02:40 AM
Ok I think I should quickly chime in.

Firstly it's the recluse and has a commander universal, it is not a sci carrier and is not how I run it for PvE. For PvE I run it in a similar fashion to the 20k people in as much as I use APB3 with FAW2+3 and rely on my weapons to do most of the damage. I do end up with a lt.comm science which I pack GW1 usually as it isn't bugged and can clump units ok when they don't hit EptE.

I could make a more science orientated build out of it but the cripplingly low turn and with a lot of abilities needing forward firing arcs doesn't make me want to try. Maybe when I get some more fleet armour consoles I will try it but I know it will be less efficient and may increase completion times drastically as mesh weavers are sporadic with their beta use and do not obey commands properly

I also ran some tests with APB3 spam (4 stacks on target) and without. The difference in damage on the new gravity well was absolutely redonkulus. We're talking a more than doubling of damage from the gravity well, if I remember correctly with sensor scan you can hit about 3.5k and with grav anchor I pushed it to or near 4k.

So now that's out of the way. Problem I see is that a nice strong gravity well or 2 stacked in PvE can be useful to fire at enemies that are fairly low order and to tear them apart through war core breaches and the wells themselves.

4-5 stacked on a player with tractor beams holding them in the centre and some nice damage resistance lowering is just insane. Especially if you add in that sensor scan is AoE and 3 science captains can debuff an entire team that way.

As has been pointed out PvE content only requires a hammer, unfortunately some captains and classes of ship are sledgehammers to that nail while others are plastic toy hammers.

It's also worth thinking about that if you're having to rely on lowering the cooldowns on tactical abilities and trying to keep a high uptime on them, then you're not exactly playing a science ship anymore, you're just playing a weak tactical ship with a heavier focus on science. I can make my wells into a FAW2+APB2 beam boat with some space wizardry, it'll be ok but I am now sacrificing science in order to stay competitive and even then I'm not staying competitive. Not as much as in my recluse with a similar build but higher tactical seating and less science.

Also don't rage on ussultimatum, he doesn't know my build and I haven't shared it with anyone so he wasn't to know I don't use science on the recluse.
------
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.

Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.

Last edited by bpharma; 09-26-2013 at 02:48 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 476
# 82
09-27-2013, 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpharma View Post
I also ran some tests with APB3 spam (4 stacks on target) and without. The difference in damage on the new gravity well was absolutely redonkulus.
Impliying that what is redonkulus and broken isn't those pets stacking 4 ABPIII. That's what needs to be fixed in the first place.
[That's it, Spanish and/or Hispanic Fleet]
L'Ter@lotherus - Alien Sci Officer - Wells/Destroyer
(No quiero mas reputaciones - No more rep!)
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,167
# 83
09-27-2013, 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rylanadionysis View Post
Ok I am going to summarize some key points here.

When we select a ship we get a choice of boff slots. All ships only come with one commander ability (one commander slot).

What we put in that slot is based on what kind of mileage and utility we can get out of whatever we have to choose from.

Right?

Ok, our career path really has little meaning to this decision, since cross building is a very common thing to do in this game (tac caps in sci ships, engineers in tac ships, etc)

Let us compare two commander level abilities.

Cannon scatter volley 3

Gravity well 3

Regardless of career path, you can spec into either ability via your gear and your skill tree.

The problem is, if you spec into cannons and damage dealing consoles, you will get TEN TIMES the mileage out of CSV3 than you will out of Gravity well 3, even if you all out spec for it.

Why?

Because damage is all that matters in this game, Borticus.

Grav well does less than 1/8th of the damage of a well placed CSV, requires more of an investment to even get to that level of damage, results in a mediocre at best crowd control ability that practically any player or NPC can just ignore and fly away from.

Why would any player choose GW3 over CSV3? Be honest with me. Ive heard there is concern with the damage output of GW3 getting too high. How can that be a justifiable argument when my science captain can do 250,000 points of damage to a group of targets with a couple cycles of CSV3 (the same time frame as ONE copy of gravity well 3 that only does about 25000 to the same group, if they even stay in it?)

Quoted...

for...

truth.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,000
# 84
10-02-2013, 04:54 PM
So I also got to test Gravity Well 3 with my victim when I tested tykens rift. As far as I know I had 154 in grav gens so by no means was I pumping it to push a lot. However the other player had 0 in inertial dampners as far as I know.

All he needed to do to escape was divert power to engines to properly escape otherwise he was bobbing back and forth. The damage wasn't great, about 1600 on average per tick with sensor scan debuffing his resistance. I will find out what his resists were and update this.

At the moment for a commander level ability it doesn't seem to push enough compared to how easy it is to escape. Do I want it to be an uber grab everything and force it to the centre? No, but I do expect for a commander level ability for someone to require more effort to counter it than simply diverting power to engines.

My advice, if you've halved the effect of grav gens with a view to make science abilities more standard then you should increase the push by 50% then we can test it again. As far as I'm concerned there are many devices and abilities which give a speed burst that can free you. For a high ranking science ability I expect it to compare to other abilities in power. Damage I can't comment on without knowing his resists.

I also demonstrated way back how stacking of beta might be a concern from mesh weavers however a team of players can do that just as easily.

Gravity Well 1 was similar in push but slightly easier for him to escape and less damage.

It might also be worth mentioning he was built for PvE and not PvP so had little to no resistace against holds, and would very likely had few escape techniques.

If they're made slightly OP by accident at worst you'll see people trying a much less used ship class for a few months while it's slowly toned down.

Is there anything in particular you would like to know or tested Devs?

If so make a quick post and we can test and give more focused feedback.
------
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.

Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Ensign
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 7
# 85
10-02-2013, 05:40 PM
Oct 3rd release notes are up. The changes to TR and GW go live tomorrow. Thank god this has been thoroughly tested. The good news is Tact Captains will continue to get more bang out of these abilities than Sci Captains. I'm excited!
Captain
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,308
# 86
10-03-2013, 06:15 AM
I am a bit pissed that a good deal of our feedback got wholly ignored and not included. Almost everyone that tested this agreed that the changes were not enough, especially at Ltcomm and comm levels of the skill.

But whatever, ill keep running lt commander/commander tactical abilities, since lt commander/commander science is never going to be worth it.

FFS.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,764
# 87
10-03-2013, 07:17 AM
I tried using a nebbie to maximize these changes, to no avail really. The best I could get was to go balls out with Grav Gen and nail everything in a 5km radius down. Going ptg however ended up everything just running out of my trap, dealing next to no damage. :s

I have TR2 on my Klink alts, but that's because they were built to farm CEE... That will forever be the only reason I run an anomaly at all.

If you want to do Sci damage, your choice is pretty much to fly a nebbie, load plasma weapons, 4 fleet plas ptg consoles, and roll with Aux2batt, BFAW, DEM+Marion, PSW3 and TBR2. Which btw a Tac captain can get WAY MORE MILEAGE out of than a Sci.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt. Comm. Pion
What should I wish upon the endless universe;
To be able to smile and forgive everything;
That's right, if we light up the dream in our hearts without averting our eyes;
We should be able to walk whatever tomorrow comes...

I am V. Adm. Kha Yuung, and I approve of this message.

Last edited by khayuung; 10-03-2013 at 07:20 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 315
# 88
10-09-2013, 07:14 AM
I say up the damage a lot but have it having to gnaw through shields first.

In essence, aceton assimilator pulses... those deal directional damage too....
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 427
# 89
03-11-2014, 04:07 PM
I have 321 skill in particle generators, + 130 aux, + grav well 3, and I get :

- 1200,4 dmg... is that normal ?

Last edited by rakija879; 03-11-2014 at 04:09 PM.
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