Lieutenant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 88
# 1 Add Class change or....
10-10-2013, 10:09 PM
I think either class change or this needs to be added to the c store.

the ability to swap lv 50 characters like they switched empires, and only empires, as if they were allowed to take each others places and switch all items and possesions like it was a character swap. Then you pay 250-500 zen and switch them around. Then you might get rid of the complicated nature of going through any class change mechanics and just swap preexisting ones. Plus make people work to get it. It could require a diplo level in doff exp or something also. It's a diplomatic or like exhange. But permanent! Then just make a way to take care of stuff invonvling fleets etc. Like a system that says they are going to swap and let them decide what to do with choices. Like accept them in at low level, accept them at current and same stats and levels, or reject them, or let me decide for custom, etc.

This will also get people to play and level multiple characters across empires!

Call it something like "A "day" in the life?!" and give it some other titles like Empire/Cultural exchange program. Even make it so they have to get so much Exp towards another empires missons somehow after you have started, or have high enough in a certain are to, per say, let your empire let you move to the other side.

Maybe a restarting of what Warf took part in, or a new version of it. But allow new people to go through it now.

The people switching would have their old class. And also keep their old looks etc if desired. But could even swap and use the saved stuff from the odl charcter. Maybe make it the decision of the player to decide if they want to save or mingle their saved uniforms. Not the ones in the uniform slots but the actual saved ones attached to the character. The could gain both so they can dress in each others uniforms etc or however they wished upon swapping.

And they would have to change ships keep the items the other charcter acquired and not fly or use your old stuff.. Flying the other empires stuff would be part of teh course. But what that character worked for would be accesible to that new character as if he were that new empire.

Basically a swaping of just the charcter and the most immediate superficial things! And the leaving of only the things that he gained from experience that apply!

This could also be done between accounts or just within accounts.... I would say atleast within accounts.

Part of the new program could be that it is high level officers so there is less likely hood of problems. And allows some intermingling of empires etc from an RP standpoing!

Characters shoudl keep anything attached to them like rep etc. Except where absolutely necesary. They could not take ships or equipment though. But none of equipment or progress related to those items should be lost!

Last edited by aftulus; 10-10-2013 at 10:23 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 694
# 2
10-10-2013, 10:22 PM
Better yet... Kill the "Class" system. Let your build alone determine what abilities you have and can train Boffs.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 78
# 3
10-11-2013, 08:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxbad View Post
Better yet... Kill the "Class" system. Let your build alone determine what abilities you have and can train Boffs.
It almost seems like that is the case already. From what I've experienced class matters a lot less in this game than your crew, ship and load-out.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 88
# 4
10-18-2013, 05:18 AM
It just realy sucks that you can get a character really far and hten realize he is not what you wanted. Especially since when you first start the game or have played something through you do not know what it is. Now I have classes with the wrong ships all over my account. And I DO NOT want to have to go through getting those to 50 and get the rep up again. This really should be added to the game. It should have always been in it.

There is almost no room in this game to do somethig wrong. and there is even less opportunity to know what you are doing ahead of time... It's absolutely rediculous. It's not like we learn everything about the ships likea captain does in the fiction. So having those demans is completely unreasonable! Let alone if someone decides to change. Don't people do that in the fiction? Don't captains have to obtain all areas of knowledge to start and have experience. It makes no sense....

And they could even do what seems to be their favorite thing. Sucking money out of people... This is something that really messes up my enjoyment of the game. You would think they would take that seriously. I will end up leaving hte game if they do not add this eventually.. IT is absolutely stupid. Espeically with how their game is design. They have wrenched me to much. They force too much on players! And it has no realistic fictional correlation.

Those space abilities and what not matter that much to play in this game. And I'm tired of being an engineer in an atrox. I though engineer would play out like what science does from the description. I have not managed to figure out one thing in this game correctly from descriptions. Not one iota. And I'm dang fing tired of being pushed around by it... I want my character the way I want it period. I'm sick of it! I want to ENJOY the game! How I want to! I am not spending a month plus regrinding rep. I use all of the stuff on my character to paly it out. I'm NOT redoing it! I will not re-waste my time for your game!! GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULLS!

This isn't even like most games where one cahracter makes it easier to start a second. It's the same work and expenditure over again, even if you are paying for the game! How are the people making this game to dense to understand that. And I mean dense!! If you can't think out the perspective of the player stop making games and find a new career! STOP INSULTING, ATTACKING, AND BEGGING FROM YOUR CUSTOMERS!! It's sicking, and nausiating, frustrating as hell, and i'm getting damn tired of it! I will not resink money or time into what I already did in your game. UNDERSTAND THAT! You do not have the same situation other games do! Your game is 100 times more of a wrench on players! you are not the nicer company. You are lazier and greedier by a long shot!

^In case you get testy, this is called real, sincere, honest feedback. It is what companies run from!! Take it that there is a reason I feel this upset! Start taking it in and think about the game design more. You lack the ability to more than any other game company I have ever seen! I have seen them all basically. You are on par with those greedy little website games!

Stop punishing me for YOUR mistakes! Mistakes in your game design and how you disceminate information! You never take away a players ability to correct a mistake. YOU don't nor will you ever know how to design an evironment where that is reasonable! So get over it! Qut punishing and forcing players to give you more money! We will do it if we have the ability and we like your game! Try that as your company motto. stick with that and you will do really well as a game company!

YOU DO NOT RUN A BUSSINESS BY COERCION! If you are not intellignet or mature enough to understand that or do the work regardless. What on earth makes you think I want to give you money!

You do not punish a player for things they cannot, or do not have the ability to give them, or you do not give them the ability to know or do! And none of you seem to know how! Let alone punish them and then make them give you money. Your game is not something where that even remotely reasonable. It is very simple. I would like to enjoy it, but I am up to here with putting up with the coercion! You really need to turn around and understand the affects of your game design on players. Or stop purposely coercing players for things! That is not how you run a bussiness!

Trade is a mutual agreement. It should be equally agreed upon by both parties! And I'm getting really tired of getting shafted, and pushed around, and sucked dry in this deal.

Last edited by aftulus; 10-18-2013 at 05:55 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,583
# 5
10-18-2013, 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aftulus View Post
Now I have classes with the wrong ships all over my account.
I didn't know there were "right" and "wrong" ships for classes. But to be honest, I use an escort on my fed engi, and a carrier on my KDF engi. Maybe I'm not able to understand.

Quote:
And I DO NOT want to have to go through getting those to 50 and get the rep up again.
So, you went all the way to 50, then grinded the rep, and finally you found you don't like the class ? And you need several weeks to rep up to rank 5. Are you just extremely slow to make an opinion or something ? Because it seems you played this character for months, maybe more, before you realizing you didn't like it.


Quote:
There is almost no room in this game to do somethig wrong.
Yet, it seems you did, and still complain.


Quote:
It's not like we learn everything about the ships likea captain does in the fiction. So having those demans is completely unreasonable! Let alone if someone decides to change. Don't people do that in the fiction? Don't captains have to obtain all areas of knowledge to start and have experience. It makes no sense....
Before becoming captain, they spent years slowly climbing the ranks, starting as an ensign. They don't start as Captain.

Quote:
And they could even do what seems to be their favorite thing. Sucking money out of people...
You are the one asking to PAY to change class. Rerolling is free.

Quote:
And it has no realistic fictional correlation.
An engineer is a lot different than a scientist, or a military. You don't see a lot of engineer suddenly becoming doctor in a hospital, without studying.

Quote:
Those space abilities and what not matter that much to play in this game. And I'm tired of being an engineer in an atrox.
Did you try to use another ship ?

Quote:
I though engineer would play out like what science does from the description.
I have not managed to figure out one thing in this game correctly from descriptions. Not one iota.
This is the Engineer description, when you create a new character (what you did) :
Quote:
Survivability, support generators, and controlling the paths of enemy advance with fieldworks. The Engineering officer can withstand the most damage by improving the performance of their personal shields, while supporting their away team with power generators or by bottlenecking the enemies advance with defensive mine fields. The Engineer's own combat effectiveness is improved by modifications to their firearms or support fire from fabricated turrets and drones.
Sounds accurate. Survability ? Check. Fieldwork ? Check. Power generators ? Mines ? Check and check.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 88
# 6
10-19-2013, 05:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by krisknives View Post
It almost seems like that is the case already. From what I've experienced class matters a lot less in this game than your crew, ship and load-out.
Yea, but you need some captain abilities for science builds espeically. If I had understood the game I would have picked science and made other choices. We should really be able to correct those and go about our characters. The science build for me would be alot more productive and I would enjoy it alot more. But there is no way I am regrinding all the time sensative stuff(rep etc) and giving up my equipment. I will be playing a new game before that happens. I didn't spend that time to not enjoy and get my character how I like and get to explore the game. Pretty odd, for star trek of all things, to not let you freely explore the game. 8)

I would actaully enjoy the game alot more to switch my main to science on my atrox. But like I said I'm not undoing what work I put into it. I will have to find another game to play until or unless they change it and let me do what I want.

At the least they should let us learn another one and slowly transistion into that other class. In the real work yo pick up and learn new skills all the time. Why not make classes like skills but use exp bars. Then let you unlearn other ones as you relearn the other class. Then you can respec in a way as long as it is between classes(actually you could avoid touching skills altogether and make you respec it seperately like now, Just make skills of non affect until you level up to the correct level again under the new class!). But have it be like multi class where you cannot combine them. Just play them like you were that class. It would amke sense for this game and fiction. I mean you are supposed to learn all fields to become captian. Then you could just change between what is your main one you want ot use and keep regrinding into the other spec if you want to change. Then it's somethig to work for! AKA you slowly ungrind one class to become the other! But not crossing thier skills. It would be like making one lv 50 while the other one goes back down to level 1! We could pay 500 zen to open up the other class and have them both open(though not simultaneously playable.. Then if we wanted to change classes we could grind into it, with all that excess expertise even potentially, and switch it through normal game mechanics! Then you have either class and can go back and forth with work without loosing other aspect of the character. Then as you play the one you can go back and do the science etc stuff or engineering stuff you couldn't do before for fun etc. I would think with this game that would be doable!

Then all you do is literally choose which class you want to play that you have unlocked and grind just the character level!(do this through only allowing a total ammount of levels over all classes x/50!) It the switched with class skills you have and other normal options as if you were the other class. Then you can be multiple classes without being more than one at once! It would atleast give us the option of changing class. And give us the work of the normal level grind to be fair. Gold players could get all of them open all the time maybe with an exp bonus. And free players could pay to open the slots(engineer,sci,tac) before engaging in the work of grnding the new class up to use it!(while leaving all other aspects of the character as is!) Again only one class would be level 50 at one time! If one rises the others fall. And no benefit for multi class. Only pure downside!

Since level grinding isn't that hard it would be doable for this game. And it would still take long enough not to be unbalanced.

As for your boffs etc. leave them how they are and just black them out of higher skill until you are sufficient level again. Or leave them as is wihle you regrind etc. Even the skills could be left as is without blanking them out. You technically had level 50. and you still have 50 total levels. Just a way to make class changes doing pure character level grinding! You are still level 50 but those levels are transitioning! Then just keep a tab on levels seperate from class, (x/50) for everything not class related. And everything class related still connected to that classes level specifically! I think that is simple enough. I bet it could be pulled off.

Then make a new tab in the character screen that has the level bars for each class(unusalbe/unbought ones greyed out) and a thing at the top saying (x/50) levels representing your total levels, aka if you are admiral etc. And have a button to buy a class token from the cstore etc. Then you open it and select it and play it to grind up. You could even do that at lower levels then and everyone could choose what they want. And make the tokens per character! 250-500 zen or someting!

250 zen would be a good price. It's grindable at alot of levels potentially. so people could really choose what they want no matter when and open up that part of the game! then it's 500zen per character to permanently open them up!

The changing of levels would be totally automated. if you ever level into one after you have 50 total levels it takes from the others. Each time you level it takes from another class etc. So all you do is choose the class oyu want to pick and start levling. You could even choose to lock your character if you did decide to not loose levels in one class and not let it take like in your power menu for your ship! Maybe some people would want 3 lv 16s or something... but they would not benefit each other. Only hinder! switching class selection completely takes away your ability to use the other class abilities! they would vanish like taking off a set peice and not come back until you rechose the class. And obviously no changing in combat. Maybe even making you go to the NPC skill trainer that lets you buy tokens and choose it from a menu so you cannot do it in space etc. So no class swapping in battles etc.

So to make it as simple as possible. Once you have 50/50 levels you enver loose it. You are still admiral etc. You are just not always level 50 science or engineer! Then You just grind for your class abilities however you desire like a noob! 8p Somewhat proper for the reality actually. And the rest of your charcter is permanently what it was! Never affected by class changes! It would be pretty good and simple representation of class training. And perfectly fit the game! Didn't major star trek officer go from one class to another over the course of the show as they changed their minds or something?! Like one famous young boy! 8p This is probably pretty much kind of like what they had to do. But we don't see the inter ship duties they had to do!




And yes it took me that long to figure out if I liked it becuase I had to exhaust equipment setups to find that out and finish grinding gear and changing skill specs! Before that I didn't know how it would play out in the end for certain! I do not want to go through ALL of that hassle again. One part like the class levesl I mentioned above sure. But all of it, I can not stand to do it. It's bad enough on my alts. I am not waisting time, energy, and money from a main character I already did. That is literally making me throw my resources and time in the trash. I will not do that!

The above idea solves all of that permanently for everyone! And it makes rp sense for what it is. It's also as simple programming and logic wise potentially! Especially if you seperate admiral/rank level from class level. Which the above makes it easy to do. No muss with skill or any other part of hte game, simply disconect class levels and skils and wallah! To make the class screen all they hvae to do is direct the infor for you current class to that xp bar like it is on our normal screen and then make two blank ones. The whatever your class is is filled in wherever you are currently. There isn't much logic to display those per level and take or add some small extra level bars in your charcter data on teh server. That should be minimal on any server. And it wouldn't be hard to make the normal main screen xp bars load data when you switch classes at the skill trainer! Or I would think/hope not! Then you redirect all non class skill logic to the x/50 reference at the top for main/total level. You could even level up multiple classes and try until you decide the grind the one totally to 50 for whatever period you want! It would be a great addition for gold players! and something for free players to work for! So gold could go to the trainer and do 10 levels in engineer and go, nah, maybe I want to do sci for a bit. Then they can still get their skills like normal.

Maybe that would be the only down side becase of the differences in xp. Or if this game is the same xp per lvel it wouldnt matter. If it is not the same xp per level then you simply make each class also x/50 and have a total x/50 for your rank level(admiral ensign etc) base on your max class and switch at the trainer when you wish to and make them simple fill bars for class! Then allow max class to represent skills and everything else is the same! No muss no fuss!

Last edited by aftulus; 10-19-2013 at 07:07 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,995
# 7
10-19-2013, 07:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by erei1 View Post
This is the Engineer description, when you create a new character (what you did) :

Sounds accurate. Survability ? Check. Fieldwork ? Check. Power generators ? Mines ? Check and check.
All of those things are true, and tell you absolutely nothing about how the class functions as a captain, since you do none of those things in space!

And since Space is what most people regard as the game, it stands to reason that many may wind up rather dissatisfied, particularly with how Engineers handle in space.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 894
# 8
10-19-2013, 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doffingcomrade View Post
All of those things are true, and tell you absolutely nothing about how the class functions as a captain, since you do none of those things in space!

And since Space is what most people regard as the game, it stands to reason that many may wind up rather dissatisfied, particularly with how Engineers handle in space.
Problem is, in spaaaaace, the only difference between any of the captain classes is all of 4.5 powers, and as of recently access to one trait...

The reason I say 4.5 is the "admiral level" captain power is a "themed fleet" power, which, much like the class team BOff powers, are "identical" in how they work, what differs is what they affect...

I could build 3 captains. All Fed. Tac, Sci, Engie. Spec identically. Stick in a Vesta with the same loadout. Other than the "nifty tricks / panic button", they'll fly nearly identically...

Tac would have a touch more DPS from their APA/FoMM/GDF/Tac Fleet. Sci has a touch of DPS (Photonic fleet), SNB to stuff the one-two buffs most PvE targets lay out, and the sci field PBAoE / Sci team damage reducers. Engie has all of what, power boosters (so periodic near max energy across the board) and the "oh crud" heal...

For PvE, none of this is a problem. For PvP, especially "high end", see how many teams would love you as an engineer...

Ground, on the other hand, is where the differences lie, because not only are your captain powers themed, so are the kits you can wear and therefore the powers you can bear. To illustrate, I could stick an engie in a mirror patrol escort and have a very close tac-officer space clone, but I could never put the fabrication kit with it's turrets on a tac captain...
50: S'Leth/Eurthyr/S. Dareau/Ardrian/Krudge/Annlova Not: Jadja
Still at it. CBS "restrictions" fell by wayside with freebie Breen. Time to re-examine ENT and ToS at tier 5, repurpose the Connie into Sci and rebuild an Akira escort into the "NX". 6 "eras", spread evenly over all the classes...
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 88
# 9
10-21-2013, 04:50 AM
I think I had a cool multi class idea. Instead of changing classes. Allow multi class!

It would work like this:

You make a new tab in the character screen for class/multi-class(little button to buy token to open multiclass. The type of token determines the second class!) that looks like the status for rep! one up one down set of choices. Normally you just use the class skills you have! But if you choose multiclass and open or buy a class you then get to start leveling the second class. This allows specialization! The boxes you choose are the class abilities and you choose which one as the levels for both classes are of equal level for that ability! Maybe with special sixth/last ability(one more than currently exists. I forgot how many) for being multiclass that each unique combo can get.The combos are only Tac/Sci, Eng/Sci, and Tac/Eng! No doubling as it wouldn't give a double version of the skill anyway! You could only choose between them.

You also only get to choose one second class! EVER! This is per character obviously! But can buy tokens to change the skills like you can with rep skills!

The drawback, which I think fits this game more, is that you are then restricted from certain ships! All, or most, ships are labeled additoinally with a tag(Tac,Sci,Eng) These ships can then be labeled with one or two tags! Sci, Eng, Tac, Tac/Sci, Eng/Sci, Tac/Eng. Though some ships could be not labeled anything to make them neutral. This would probably be the case for low end ships! The drawback is that you cannot fly any ship with the third unused tag! So a Sci/Eng cannot fly a Tac/Sci, or a Tac, or a Tac/Eng. Only Sci, Eng, Sci/Eng ships, and neutrals! It would be called extreme customization or restrictive customization!

There could be a Bar for ground and space skills! Letting you choose which one you want for each ability level! You could also do special class goals for both classes during missions etc. The system would just count you as both! So you get a choice! YOu can then use all of the stuff for both and don't have to worry about losing anything. Just having unflyable ships. Then you have ot think carefully about what you want to pick!

The ships would be labeled on, basically, what it is orented towards, or nothing. If it has more sci slots it is sci, if it has more engy is it engy, If it is naturally a mix it is both! Many ships fit these. And several factions, I think, already have orientation and hence ships. It's just a matter of choosing your sepcialization!

So then if you want a tac ship and want to be Sci/Eng, you can only pick the weaker ones! Which I think is a far drawback for the potential gain!

There could also be a special Kit that you could customize potentialy. Or just pick one from either class that arleady exists! That would definetly open up an Elachi wannabe. That would be sci/eng combo kit! The kits could be customizable through crafting. Giving crafting a permanent use ingame. If you want a new one you just make a new one and put new abilities in it. No redos! Wouldn't be that big of a deal! Then you have different level kits that let you put stuff into as a base. And just have to releast kits of different potential powers as the game progresses. Pretty minimal at that level!

You could also choose from both categories of class traits.

I would think this idea would be the easiest as it does not require to take away anything. Just add and restriced based on simple labeling to certain ships! This idea also only adds a limited of strategic addition allowing customizatoin and not being overwhelming balance wise. In fact it fits into current molds for NPCs. Like the above mentioned Elachi.

I would love to be Sci/Eng on my main! I have a Ferengi that would be a cool Tac/Sci in a ferengi maurader! That would be way more fun than changing classes. And fix basically the whole issue. You could always multiclass and choose one sides skills completely!

In fact if this was added I would enver care about class changes. I would just open up new character slots and start having fun with new combos! And this would add a nice bit of new versatility for players that I think is needed pretty badly! I bet most people would enjoy it alot!

They could even has sales for the class tokens during normal events and stuff. The tokens that have the resemblence to the game content could be on sale some percentage! Elachi would be good Sci and Eng. Heck maybe all three. Either way profit potential added to normal gameplay releases!

Quote:
This is the Engineer description, when you create a new character (what you did) :
Quote:
Survivability, support generators, and controlling the paths of enemy advance with fieldworks. The Engineering officer can withstand the most damage by improving the performance of their personal shields, while supporting their away team with power generators or by bottlenecking the enemies advance with defensive mine fields. The Engineer's own combat effectiveness is improved by modifications to their firearms or support fire from fabricated turrets and drones.
Sounds accurate. Survability ? Check. Fieldwork ? Check. Power generators ? Mines ? Check and check.
That is the problem. That sounds like self sufficient CC player. Which is what I was going for. But that is more of what Sci does. I thought Sci was the healer/damager and Eng was the CC/Damager! I was coming from SWTOR I think. I played Sage. I thought Engineer was what I was going for. Sci was what I really wanted. It completely confused me. The only other thing that would be better would be this kind of multi-class which would make up for it completetly. Because there are some things from an RP standpoint I would love to do. My charcter is basically Sci/Eng at heart. The full creativity and knowledge of science, per say, and application and practical abilities potential of engineering. but you currently can't sink something like that up with your character! I made a custom race that is based on the love of knowledge basically. That is Sci and Eng. Kind of like the elachi. But may or may not use drones and ground units. Though maybe he would!

This game could definetly use some of the middle ground for Rping sake. And it would add more gameplay optoins and hence more fun. More player options!!

BTW multiclass with choosing one sides abilities completely would be like a guy who went through two degrees. That is good for RPing. It is realistic especially of those in the science engineering sides from a real world perpsective. You tend to get varied experience so you can do things realistically. So multiclass is very realistic for the game. And some people would just outright study everything they could! Heck call the multiclass advanced degree. Or dual degree!

Last edited by aftulus; 10-21-2013 at 05:43 AM.
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