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Join Date: Aug 2013
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# 11
10-11-2013, 12:11 AM
Quite apart from that, simple critical thinking requires that there be exceptions to the monolith. For instance, I reconcile the more warlike Ferengi of TNG with the all profit, all the time Ferengi of DS9 with the point that, if the Ferengi didn't have a well-equipped military of whatever form, somebody in the region (Breen, Cardassians, whoever) would have conquered them a long time ago. Similarly, even the Klingons have to have accountants.

I think Mass Effect handled it best. The "all members of a species act like this" thing (TV Tropes calls it Planet of Hats) is treated as a stereotype that may or may not actually apply to the individuals you have to deal with and is often based on only partial information. Best example for this is probably the batarians. Popular perception is that they're all criminal scum, but that's because the ones most people are likely to deal with are exiles from a totalitarian government. The refugees you meet in Mass Effect 3 are just ordinary people fleeing the apocalypse and, according to the codex, are actually quite a spiritual people.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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# 12
10-11-2013, 12:18 AM
I think it might be worth mentioning that the Orions have lost their homeworld and not all Orions are affiliated with the syndicate. Therefore, it might just be possible for one splinter group to have one culture and another to have another. The Romulans are a perfect example of this: with the loss of Romulus, most Romulans either side with the Tal Shiar and Sela or D'tan and the Republic. However, there are many other groups of Romulans who are either completely neutral or either sway one way or the other towards the two "main factions" (wheather or not there are more factions than just D'tan's and Sela's remains to be seen.)
On the subject of Abramsverse stuff in STO: http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/07...l-rivera-part/
And more reasons against JJ Trek: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiQ9piVgtWM
And even more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REOjxvQPQNQ
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,164
# 13
11-07-2013, 08:44 AM
People are taking the Males are the slaves too literially.

I believe they meant it as slave to thier own desires sense.

Using pheromones and sex to manipulate the Males into doing thier wishes.

Orion Society is based on a corrupted verison of BDSM minus the importance of consent. On the surface it appears males and owners are in charge, dominate, but the truth is its the submissive, females who actually set the boundaries or on a societial level the rules. Also see the term topping from the bottom.

So maybe an Orion Female if she wants to be a powerful Matron has to be a sex slave first and work her way up.

Also animal woman might simply be a Orion Female who does not have the pheromones and thier for is seen as less evolved hence animalistic.

Also the Females Pheromones actually started in the Animated Series.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,613
# 14
11-07-2013, 04:54 PM
Originally Posted by ambassadormolari View Post
If we are to accept the Enterprise/STO version, though, then that does raise a lot of questions about the exact nature of male roles in Orion society. Are they all slaves, and thus completely devoid of any rights, or are they able to, and allowed, to pursue individual goals independent of female rule? Can males rise to any sort of authority or influence within the Syndicate? And finally, are they all vulnerable to the pheromones of the females, or have some developed an evolutionary resistance over time?
So there is a glass ceiling in Orion culture? The males can only progress upward so far before the females slap 'em down? What happens if the males revolt? Hmm, that would make a good STO fan fic story idea. I'll try to remember to suggest it to Shevet, once he's got some free time to write for Ten Forward again. I bet he'd make a great story out of it.
Join Date: Jun 2012
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# 15
11-07-2013, 05:04 PM
some of the newer books, such as the Vanguard series do try to remidy this, as late as the 23rd century, the females still basically control their "masters" from the shadows. And most male Orions don't even realize it. It's only recently, in the STO timeline that the female matrons have made themselves known.

Last edited by f9thaceshigh; 11-07-2013 at 05:07 PM.
Join Date: Jun 2012
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# 16
11-07-2013, 05:48 PM
I personally rectify it by pointing out that Orions are known to be NOT as much of an alien monoculture as some people like to think of them as. There are hints, including the first mention of them, that Orion culture is multifaceted, and that we tend to see only one facet.

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Join Date: Sep 2012
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# 17
11-07-2013, 06:06 PM
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
I personally rectify it by pointing out that Orions are known to be NOT as much of an alien monoculture as some people like to think of them as. There are hints, including the first mention of them, that Orion culture is multifaceted, and that we tend to see only one facet.
Well said. This is what I try to keep in mind.
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