Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,084
# 11
10-20-2013, 06:02 AM
The Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order have worked together in the past, not necessarily the Union and Star Empire and definately not the Republic and the Union. It's entirely possibly that your average Romulan or Cardassian doesn't even know the Battle of the Omarion Nebula even happened.

And as to how the Klingons would view a Cardassian/Romulan alliance; We're talking about a race that believe "Once it is up, a Klingon never lets down their guard, and a Klingon's guard is up from the first moment he draws breath".

Think about it, the Martok-Changling helped push it, yes, but the Klingons believed that just because the Cardassian civilians overthrew the Central Command after centuries of military rule, they had to have help from the Dominion and Changlings and used that as an excuse to attack the Cardassians.

The Fed-RR-Klingon triangle can be accepted to a degree because it keeps the Republic divided and weak while giving the Klingons hostages in the form of KDF-Roms to ensure good behavior. Bring the Cardassians - an enemy of the Klingons - into the equation and suddenly you've got two 'former' enemies and one current enemy all working together to some degree. Klingons may be many things, but foolish Klingons do not live long and only a fool wouldn't consider that a potential threat to the Empire. The Klingons are the type to consider the ability to be a threat equal to the fact of being a threat; as long as the Republic is divided between them and the Federation and they can control some of the flow of resources, the Republic is not a threat. Ally the Cardassian Union and Republic, increase the flow of resources between both groups in a way that the Empire can't control... they both become a threat.
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# 12
10-20-2013, 06:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbomagnus View Post
The Fed-RR-Klingon triangle can be accepted to a degree because it keeps the Republic divided and weak while giving the Klingons hostages in the form of KDF-Roms to ensure good behavior. Bring the Cardassians - an enemy of the Klingons - into the equation and suddenly you've got two 'former' enemies and one current enemy all working together to some degree. Klingons may be many things, but foolish Klingons do not live long and only a fool wouldn't consider that a potential threat to the Empire. The Klingons are the type to consider the ability to be a threat equal to the fact of being a threat; as long as the Republic is divided between them and the Federation and they can control some of the flow of resources, the Republic is not a threat. Ally the Cardassian Union and Republic, increase the flow of resources between both groups in a way that the Empire can't control... they both become a threat.
What exactly do you imagine happening if/when they bring out that mini Cardassian faction. Another alliance system is no doubt going to be the route they take, allying Cardassians with the Klingons. That's the worst idea ever. At least this way it would keep that from happening. One benefit.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 427
# 13
10-20-2013, 06:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flash525 View Post
It is clear to me that you don't support this idea, so you'll have to accept I'm not going to go into a great deal of effort to reply to all of your ... concerns.

The Cardassian Union became a puppet due to Dukat and Damar; it was only later that Damar stood up. As soon as they lost Dukat, that's when it started to go south for them.
Dukat and Damar were strong personalities... they were able to at least somewhat retain the "Cardassian Spirit" and it was just after Damar got away that Legate Broca gained command... most likely he was a programmed clone or a genetically altered Vorta as he was nothing more than a lowly servant to the female founder.

Quote:
We'd gain a faction out of it. Why is it so hard to believe there would be different groups of Cardassians?

Group #1 ~ The True Way
Group #2 ~ Happy being under Federation rule, with no Military of their own
Group #3 ~ Unhappy being under Federation rule, desires a Military of their own for the sake of self preservation and security
A faction of what? Where do they get ships? Where do they get weapons?
I doubt the True Way would support them...

Quote:
Something else we need to consider too, the current Cardassian state has no military, no ships (or a serious lack of them anyway) as they're essentially under Federation rule. If we get another mini faction focusing on these Cardassians, are we going to be flying around in shuttles and cargo transports? A military force is forbidden.
See above

Quote:
So there can be rebellious Jem Hadar but not rebellious Karemma / Paradan?
The Jem'Hadar were bread and altered for combat... they know the tactics, they know how to fight... and they seem to not possess a homeworld...
Both the Karemma and Paradan are ordinary people and judging from what we've seen the Dominion would most likely just have glassed their planet if there was forming something that could be interpreted as dissent even if those with rebellious thoughts were not on it...

So, Singular People could likely be Bridge Officers, gaining them from an Event and they would be akin to Tovan, Individuals...

But a complete "faction" of Karemma and Paradan? No way... not even now...

Quote:
It does actually. Said splinter group wouldn't define the Detapa Council strong, thus they'd join with the Republic to reclaim their strength.
No... it still doesn't... those Cardassians wouldn't be strong to begin with... they would need Ships and Weapons...
They would be a burden to the New Romulan Republic until they managed to overthrow the Detapa Council or the True Way and acquire "land" and actually regain "strength"... and that wouldn't go very smoothly with the Federation and most likely they would retaliate against these rogue elements and pull support from the NRR leaving the latter to the whim of the Klingon Empire...

Politics my dear friend... D'tan might be somewhat... strange in some ways... but he is certaintly not so stupid as to risk all for some puny Cardassians...
Selor Andaram Ephelion Kiith
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# 14
10-20-2013, 06:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by saekiith View Post
Where do they get ships? Where do they get weapons?
Where do you think the Republic got their ships and technology from? It wasn't the Tal Shiar.

It stands to reason that there are Cardassian ships stored in docks somewhere. These can be claimed. In addition, new ships can be built via shipyards. Heck, the Ar?Kif was a Republic design, and if they can design and build their own ships, so can a sub-faction of Cardassians.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,084
# 15
10-20-2013, 07:11 AM
Let's see, the first 2370's Jem'hadar attack ships in the game were found floating abandoned in space where anyone could find them according to the backstory and then taken back to starbases for examination and Path to 2409 mentioned at least seventy Galor-class warships and larger were missing when Cardassian military supplies were audited after the Dominion War, so that's where some of the ships could come from.
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Last edited by turbomagnus; 10-20-2013 at 07:16 AM.
Commander
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# 16
10-20-2013, 07:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flash525 View Post
Where do you think the Republic got their ships and technology from? It wasn't the Tal Shiar.

It stands to reason that there are Cardassian ships stored in docks somewhere. These can be claimed. In addition, new ships can be built via shipyards. Heck, the Ar?Kif was a Republic design, and if they can design and build their own ships, so can a sub-faction of Cardassians.
And you think the Federation would just let that happen when they vowed to protect the new Cardassia under the Detapa Council?

You think that they just let some random Cardassians into most likely heavily guarded Docks and Depots and just let them Walk away with fully armed Warships?

You think that the Federation would just sit idly by when some random Cardassians, even less organized than the True Way seizes Shipyards and starts building full Warships?
Selor Andaram Ephelion Kiith

Last edited by saekiith; 10-20-2013 at 07:24 AM.
Career Officer
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# 17
10-20-2013, 07:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by saekiith View Post
And you think the Federation would just let that happen when they vowed to protect the new Cardassia under the Detapa Council?

You think that they just let some random Cardassiansn into most likely heavily guarded Docks and Depots and just let them Walk away with fully armed Warships?

You think that the Federation would just sit idly by when some random Cardassians, even less organized than the True Way seizes Shipyards and starts building full Warships?
I keep forgetting that everything in game already makes sense and is organized.

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by saekiith View Post
Both the Dominion would most likely just have glassed their planet if there was forming something that could be interpreted as dissent even if those with rebellious thoughts were not on it...
Refugees?

Quote:
Originally Posted by saekiith View Post
But a complete "faction" of Karemma and Paradan? No way... not even now...
They'd not be their own faction. They'd be optional extras for Cardassian players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saekiith View Post
They would be a burden to the New Romulan Republic until they managed to overthrow the Detapa Council or the True Way and acquire "land" and actually regain "strength"... and that wouldn't go very smoothly with the Federation and most likely they would retaliate against these rogue elements and pull support from the NRR leaving the latter to the whim of the Klingon Empire...
Who said anything about a rebellion? Nobody needs to get overthrown here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saekiith View Post
D'tan might be somewhat... strange in some ways... but he is certaintly not so stupid as to risk all for some puny Cardassians...
Really? If he's all about peace, rebuilding and unification I'm pretty sure he'd be willing to help out some Cardassians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saekiith View Post
And you think the Federation would just let that happen when they vowed to protect the new Cardassia under the Detapa Council? You think that they just let some random Cardassians into most likely heavily guarded Docks and Depots and just let them Walk away with fully armed Warships?
Stick with the other half of the discussion then if this wouldn't pass by you. These Cardassians can build their own ships. It's not beyond believable.

Last edited by flash525; 10-20-2013 at 07:46 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,084
# 18
10-20-2013, 07:25 AM
Unfortunately, there is real-world historical precedent to it, to a degree.
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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 427
# 19
10-20-2013, 07:32 AM
It is fascinating that apparently some people still think, if at least one other thing is not up to par, anything new doesn't need to be either...
Selor Andaram Ephelion Kiith
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,984
# 20
10-20-2013, 07:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flash525 View Post
Where do you think the Republic got their ships and technology from? It wasn't the Tal Shiar.
Oh really? are you trying to compare the Romulan Star Empire with the Cardassian Union?
The Republic might got their ships from the Romulan Navy shipyards but lets not compare both as if they are the same, Cardassia was on the losing side of the Dominion War and demobilized and disarmed after.

This is the Treaty of Bajor.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Bajor

Quote:
It stands to reason that there are Cardassian ships stored in docks somewhere. These can be claimed.
That begs the question of why with their backs against the war they werent used in the Battle of Cardassia, considering the state the Cardassian military its unlikely they would have Galors just lying around and be forgotten.

Quote:
In addition, new ships can be built via shipyards. Heck, the Ar?Kif was a Republic design, and if they can design and build their own ships, so can a sub-faction of Cardassians.
Because the Republic inherited or taken over existing Romulan Shipyards, the Cardassian Union on the other hand was by the Treaty of Bajor occupied by the Federation Alliance, its beyond unlikely would be building warships under such supervision.

You are trying to build a Cardassian Union that cease to exist following the Dominion War, not what exists.
Romulans ...
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