Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 13,183
# 1931
10-10-2013, 09:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalpen View Post
It's called "taking the low road".
Exactly. AFKers want something, and don't care if they hurt others to get it.

And really.... aside form "grinding" what else is there that could possibly keep you busy for 4 hours a day? If you want story, play everything in the Foundry mission database. Otherwise go back to grinding.
HAIL HYDRA!

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I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Career Officer
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 443
# 1932
10-17-2013, 01:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobar26th View Post
So, it's a long despised issue, and I dare say most Endgame players have seen it at some point or other - so let's talk about solutions!
*snip*
There are two solutions that will work much better than what is implemented right now. But first, lets discuss something PWE doesn't want discussed: Motivation. You hit on this very well, and needs some expanding and delving into. The motivation for afking and under-performing is as you stated, identical rewards to those that participate. So the obvious and only real solution is removing this motivation all together.

So lets discuss this new system PWE devised: The whole idea that banning a player for a few hours when they afk will stop AFKer's is fundamentally flawed because the motivation is not removed. Sure, afk players have to wait a little longer, but lets face it, they AFK knowing the mission may fail reaping no rewards, yet they do it anyways for that "chance" of getting something for free.

I'll recap, the only way to solve this problem is by removing the motivation entirely and in a way that rewards players whom are contributing to the group while removing any possibility of reward to those that do not. And there are two ways of going about this.

VOTING SYSTEM
This would likely not be a large project for PWE to achieve, in fact it could be handled with a new and simple chat command very easily. This system I propose is a system that allows any player to initiate a vote in the group. If the majority of the votes cast indicate that the player is undesirable to the group, then the player is removed and another player is pulled in from the queue.

Of course, this system is also ripe for abuse and should be considered very carefully before implementation. This system could also solve a lot of issues beyond just the afk and leeching issue such as "bad" players, those whom scream in chat when someone makes the slightest, yet honest mistake, and players who simply don't want to communicate.

As I said though, this system is ripe for abuse allowing players to kick a player for any reason they want at any point in the mission and may add more drama to groups than needed.

REWARD SCALING SYSTEM
This is so trivial, I don't understand why it is not being used. It is already in use in some group finders. Imagine a system in which keeps a tally of your damage, healing, support, and tanking (by calculating damage taken). Sound familiar? It should, because this is near to exactly what the Crystalline Event does in order to determine your placement (ref image of my last Crystalline fight {yes I'm a hopeless trek fan and have a boff named Hugh v2.0} ).

If this was applied to all missions, this would solve both the issues of AFKers and the issues of leeches joining an elite STF without first learning it and being capable of contributing to the group by eradicating all motivation thereof.

For the life of me, I cannot identify a single flaw with this system. So allow me to break it down so you can help me understand why PWE hasn't put this in place yet.

Rewards should evenly scale with a minimum cutoff to:

Escorts: The amount of damage you do
Cruisers: The amount of damage you take
Sci Vess: The amount of healing and debuffs you do

Please note: I specified that these quotas should be run on the ship, not the captain. I understand very well that captains like trying new things and more flexible and complex builds. I wouldn't dare penalize this pool of creativity and nor should a system like this lock in a captain to a quota system because of his class. Instead, it should look directly at the ship the captain is using because no captain will use an escort to tank (though we may have to examine which category the chimera will fit in, or all of the above), no captain will use a science vessel to DPS. So it is absolutely paramount we don't limit the players to a certain ship with these quotas by placing these quotas on the captain's class and not the class of his/her ship.

There would be a minimum achievement you have to reach to receive any reward, this line should be minimum (but some) effort in a minimum (but capable) ship and gear to an extreme reward as well as a leaderboard (here's to hope) for players that provide extreme effort and extreme ships and gear.

This will ensure, 1) everyone is doing their JOBs, ie, Cruisers tanking, Science is healing and debuffing, and escorts are dpsing and 2) solves the problem with under-performing and AFK players!

This also has a very desirable side-effect: This system will allow for PWE to make fights more challenging and difficult with higher quality item rewards that are within reasonable reach by requiring each group member to meet a specific ability level before attempting the mission for a reward.

Arguments for this that I have seen range only in the category of excuses -- "What if my connection dies or I lag during a fight?"

The answer is, you did not contribute as much as you should have, so then you should not be entitled to the same reward. My connection lags here and there too, and if I had a lag bolt of half the darn mission, I certainly would not expect, no -- DEMAND -- the same reward. It is this entitlement mentality that leeches use to sustain their status in game to begin with.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.

Last edited by lordlalo; 10-17-2013 at 02:57 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 303
# 1933
10-21-2013, 05:24 PM
I have a solution, I say everyone make a list of all these afkers and if you see one leave, if we join a stf or any other pve or pvp mission and any of them show up I say leave, let them sit there alone, after being stuck in one alone a few times because everyone is tired of their laziness it might stop. We are not their employees, it's not our job to earn fleet marks or any other marks for them. I'm making my own list and when I see one I'm going to split. As far as the people saying we shouldn't leave but stick it out for the team I say are you going to pay us for earning marks for these people?
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,158
# 1934
10-21-2013, 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordlalo View Post
There would be a minimum achievement you have to reach to receive any reward, this line should be minimum (but some) effort in a minimum (but capable) ship and gear to an extreme reward as well as a leaderboard (here's to hope) for players that provide extreme effort and extreme ships and gear.

This will ensure, 1) everyone is doing their JOBs, ie, Cruisers tanking, Science is healing and debuffing, and escorts are dpsing and 2) solves the problem with under-performing and AFK players!
Falls apart in the case currently causing the most grief: Azure, in which nobody tanks, nobody shoots, and nobody heals, if the mission is done right, since the mission objectives require none of these things and having to take any of these actions represents a failure. A perfectly run Azure will result in no shots fired: Nobody shoots, nobody gets hit, nobody needs heals.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 669
# 1935
10-21-2013, 06:25 PM
I still think not to be teamed with people on your ignore list is the simplest solution.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,158
# 1936
10-21-2013, 08:49 PM
Yes, but no one LIKES simple solutions. Besides, the guys you don't want to be teamed with aren't necessarily the guys you'd ignore in chats.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 582
# 1937
10-22-2013, 01:14 AM
They have talked, they have tried to step against me. I WILL NOT FALL!
Say the word, it saves the world.
CUUCUUMBEER! "-With slight partigen with it."
Proud member or DPS-800 "-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,831
# 1938
10-22-2013, 03:18 AM
Why is this thread 194 pages? It's just the same arguments over and over and over.

Really needs closing now.
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 303
# 1939
10-22-2013, 08:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by peetapipmac View Post
Why is this thread 194 pages? It's just the same arguments over and over and over.

Really needs closing now.
Because it's still a relevant topic that's why. Still have people who want to join these missions and just stand there at the starting spawn point while the rest of the team does all the work. Slavery ended decades ago, I think someone needs to inform those idiots at Cryptic that, if someone wants to farm marks fine, but they better do something too, otherwise the rest of us want to be paid for our work
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,831
# 1940
10-22-2013, 09:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vermatrix View Post
I think someone needs to inform those idiots at Cryptic that, if someone wants to farm marks fine, but they better do something too, otherwise the rest of us want to be paid for our work
That's an unfair statement. They've already shown that they are looking into combating it. they even had attempt at a fix on the test servers, but they had to bring it down because it wasn't working right.

Policing people who "afk" isn't something that can be done in a quick fix. (at least not in a way that isn't itself open to abuse.)
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