Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 910
# 11
10-22-2013, 06:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
I don't think a coat of paint will remedy ESD's interior.
then what would ?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,416
# 12
10-22-2013, 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
Well, I'd also like to see the civilian military split but I'd also like all those Ferengi around who are contraband traders to sell weapons or something.

As for DS9, my idea is to make it a full adventure zone like New Romulus. Part of the revamp is adding the infirmary and security but also making the promenade more than just kiosks, with actual shops. Maybe adjust the added on areas to be docked ships.
Be nice if those Ferengi contraband traders actually had some use. Who in their right mind would buy or sell anything to them. Perhaps have some kind of barter system where you could haggle on prices and get better deals. But they do belong in the bar, but of course the shady side of the bar.

DS9 Adventure zone..............I'm iffy on that. I can see you getting into classic DS9 scuffles if you happened to turn the wrong way down a hallway or come across an illegal deal in one of the cargobays. But I really disagree with it being anywhere like Defera or New Romulus. It would be better off a random occurrence as you are walking through the station. Sort of like in Grand Theft Auto 5 where you are going down the street and you hear a cry for help as someone gets robbed. It's completely random that happens.

But I really don't see DS9 being an adventure-type zone. Though if they ever take us to Cardassia, I could see an Adventure zone there.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,925
# 13
10-22-2013, 07:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
Be nice if those Ferengi contraband traders actually had some use. Who in their right mind would buy or sell anything to them. Perhaps have some kind of barter system where you could haggle on prices and get better deals. But they do belong in the bar, but of course the shady side of the bar.

DS9 Adventure zone..............I'm iffy on that. I can see you getting into classic DS9 scuffles if you happened to turn the wrong way down a hallway or come across an illegal deal in one of the cargobays. But I really disagree with it being anywhere like Defera or New Romulus. It would be better off a random occurrence as you are walking through the station. Sort of like in Grand Theft Auto 5 where you are going down the street and you hear a cry for help as someone gets robbed. It's completely random that happens.

But I really don't see DS9 being an adventure-type zone. Though if they ever take us to Cardassia, I could see an Adventure zone there.
Well, I think it would need to be more like the staging area and Epohh area on New Romulus but that there's a lot of good opportunity to play with light brawls and detective type content.

And by fleshing our the corridors, having places where brawls can take place without security responding immediately. Heck, maybe have some fights in remote areas just be an endurance test (like the Undine ship early in the game) where you have to stay alive until security shows up to subdue the enemy.

I'm thinking more in terms of events going on around the station, less in terms of free range enemies. Although perhaps having a variety of people who it's possible to question or provoke a fight with.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,653
# 14
10-22-2013, 08:08 PM
The DS9 second floor and ESD's lower level's are just wasted space. They should add something to them.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,103
# 15
10-22-2013, 09:19 PM
I think the ground social areas should be more important than the space ones. I don't think they were going for that in the beginning. Then again, the game was originally being developed by Perpetual, and their vision of STO was..... different.

I think that if Cryptic had been developing STO from the beginning it would have been another story. If I remember what Taco and DStahl have told me correctly, they had a year to turn half made art assets without code into a functioning MMORPG within a year. It's easy to see why they stuck with Perpetuals art assets even if they don't look very good.
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/centersolace/189cux9khvl6ojpg_zpsca7ccff0.jpg

So inhumane superweapons, mass murder, and canon nonsense is okay, but speedos are too much for some people.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,416
# 16
10-22-2013, 09:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
I think the ground social areas should be more important than the space ones. I don't think they were going for that in the beginning. Then again, the game was originally being developed by Perpetual, and their vision of STO was..... different.

I think that if Cryptic had been developing STO from the beginning it would have been another story. If I remember what Taco and DStahl have told me correctly, they had a year to turn half made art assets without code into a functioning MMORPG within a year. It's easy to see why they stuck with Perpetuals art assets even if they don't look very good.
Well the (Probert's) concept art for Perpetual's STO was rather good. They obviously wanted more to do with interiors of ships and ESD than we currently have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
Well, I think it would need to be more like the staging area and Epohh area on New Romulus but that there's a lot of good opportunity to play with light brawls and detective type content.

And by fleshing our the corridors, having places where brawls can take place without security responding immediately. Heck, maybe have some fights in remote areas just be an endurance test (like the Undine ship early in the game) where you have to stay alive until security shows up to subdue the enemy.

I'm thinking more in terms of events going on around the station, less in terms of free range enemies. Although perhaps having a variety of people who it's possible to question or provoke a fight with.
I too always wanted to see a fully fleshed out DS9 where we can travel to the docking rings and even have residential quarters.

And seems your suggestion and my suggestion could be merge together with those mysteries or attacks being simple random events? And perhaps encourage players by giving out various rewards that could possibly end up with something really nice (unique).


And I like the idea of provoking fights, in this 27 year old PC Game that I keep telling Cryptic to reference, you could actually provoke aliens into fights if you didn't have the right skill in communications (which in STO could be diplomacy), even in bartering situations they would get mad if you give them a bad deal.

Perhaps part of it could go towards high-stakes dabo and you're competing against an NPC and you get too ahead and it turns into a bar fight, and weapons are disabled and you have to do hand-to-hand fighting against an NPC that isn't easy to take down.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 874
# 17
10-23-2013, 12:07 AM
One of the problem's with ESD's interior is that it's tiny. Not like the relative dimensions (which are huge), but in comparison to the model size and the actual in universe size of the station.


It should take ages to run around the circle of the main hub area to the point where you'd need turbolifts to get around quickly, or some sort of moving sidewalk.

If they had the resources and time to make the interior and the 'exterior visible from the interior' the right size, they basically would have unlimited room to make a really cool and interesting station design, especially if they make it multilevel, stick in stuff like gardens, docked ships, holodecks, and corridors behind the promenade style stuff.

The lower decks need some attention too, IMO. I mean honestly why do they exist?

Also: You should totally board ESD from where your ship is docked with it. Obviously they can't show your specific ship, but a standard fed airlock that you spawn in and cross the docking tube to ESD proper would be amazing, for the people who are interested in that. Make separate 'beam in' and 'dock' buttons so the people who don't care about the interior stuff can just beam in.

Then put some of those perpetual concept arts to use and make ESD actually have a real operations center (the crap in the middle doesn't count). Give it a real ops/bridge that you can turbolift up to, move Quinn's office up there so he's actually on the bridge and the dudes in his office are there. Replace his 'office' where it's currently located with diplomatic quarters for sugohara.

Do some more animation for the exterior- looking out the windows, we should see fed ships of various sorts cruise by, shuttles and freighters heading up from Earth to ESD or the other stations or warping out, and small flotillas flying around in formation.

Open up the 'path' around the circle into a much wider concourse area, with viewing room/deck stuff on the exterior. Stick club 47 in one of these. Then move the 'interior/center stuff back on the interior wall, which is now much larger and have like, districts. Move the shipbuilding stuff entirely into the shipyard area, and have it accessible via turbolift rather than 'go to the ship area, go to the shipyard'. Then have your diplomatic district, your trade/banking/merchantile district that includes shops, requisitions, and that sort of thing, then have your bar and drinks and *gasp* maybe even a rival bar or something.

Do gardens, holodecks, the study hall for the cadets and presentations and ****, and have various NPCs on patrol or stationed throughout, including (for the love of god) civilians. Civilians civilians civilians. Of variety of ages. Children, even, wandering around in little family groups, or on school trips.

You could make a school district by the cadet study hall area, and have one of the Ob'brien children as a teacher there or something. Do some repetition to pad out the ring to a proper size, so like every so often you have little shop/bank/exchange/bar social hub areas that are still in the same zone. Make it so that when people spawn in, they don't always spawn at the exact same point, but spawn in at one of these zones. Obviously they can turbolift to them. That makes the space feel much larger (and be much larger), but also lets people split up, or go explore. They can turbolift up to ops to see admiral Quinn or hit up the major stuff down on the main ring.

The stuff in the center of the existing ESD can all be moved up to ops. Do a real custom ops and have it look really nice, and not like crap. Then maybe import that into the fleet starbase because that command room (just on the fed) looks pretty generically bad. The klink one, on the other hand is amazing.


For added interaction, whenever a borg attack hits Sirius sector, you could send the tarbase into red alert, which would be a sort of semi-interactive zone wide thing. Lights would dim or be replaced with red alert lights, graphics on monitors would swap to the red alert animation. Everyone in the zone would get a 'fight the borg' red alert option, and there'd be some custom pathing and effects.

So like all the civilians would run to the nearest turbolift and despawn- heading back to their quarters. The military NPCs would all pull their guns out, go through some emotes checking their gear. Meanwhile other NPCs would head to the turbolifts to the docking level, and you could actually go down there to go to 'your ship' while these guys are running/jogging down the docking tube to the ship end (and despawning).

The NPCs at the bars and **** would close stuff down (but still be available for purchase or whatever- it'djust be a cosmetic change), and the ships outside the window would change. So freighters would start warping in and flying down to dock with ESD or land. The flotillas would take up holding formations, and larger defensive fleets would warp in. The shuttles would all dock.

You could even set it up to pick a random PC ship and spawn a copy of it in, so you see PC ships undocking from ESD and warping out. (but it's not *actually* that PC's ship, just a smaller copy of it).

So much potential, but limited by budget concerns.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 634
# 18
10-23-2013, 07:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
Well, I'd also like to see the civilian military split but I'd also like all those Ferengi around who are contraband traders to sell weapons or something.

As for DS9, my idea is to make it a full adventure zone like New Romulus. Part of the revamp is adding the infirmary and security but also making the promenade more than just kiosks, with actual shops. Maybe adjust the added on areas to be docked ships.

Have melee brawling missions in Quarks and periodic invasions of the upper promenade along with tons of New Romulus style missions and periodic events to give it life, such as investigations, trade, etc.

I'd also be inclined to tie a rep to it that launches only after completing the 2800 and have your rep tier determine which version of Ops you go to, with a storyline that involves the removal of Kurland. Kurland's incompetence is a subject on the forums and it might be fun for Borticus as an actor to give of Kurland's descent. The rep could be tied to bringing DS9 to its former glory. Maybe it could involve Worf's grandson taking command from Kurland since he's a DS9 based character we no longer see in the open world.

So at T1 rep, we go to a version of Ops that's the standard version and as rep tiers proceed, thing fall apart and get pur back together. At T4, Kurland is gone. At T5, the new commander is in place. Handled backend by having 4 copies of ops.

Have Cardassian vole hunting similar to Epohh breeding on the lower decks. Have high level rep grand access to personal quarters on DS9 with the ability to place ship trophies and maybe do crafting or cooking or the like. The set for personal quarters is very close to the briefing room set used in The 2800.

What I'm picturing is a DS9 with maybe about 40-60% more interior, a rep, a Quark's makeover, and activities which a content designer can periodically add to without needing new maps.

Heck, maybe handle passage of time post 2409 as a DS9 centered rep. So you have DS9:Year1 rep. And a year later new activities and rewards and another 5 rep tiers for DS9: Year 2 rep. If hubs and adventure zones were handled this way, they could be continuously added onto every year.
Much as I hate Kurland (and I've debated making a Foundry mission where you just kill him over, and over, and over again on multiple occasions), I don't really think he's nearly as incompetent as most make him out to be. Yeah, DS9 gets taken on his watch a few times, but didn't the same happen to Sisko? And yet Sisko's apparently the most bad-ass mo-fo to ever walk out of Starfleet Academy according to a fairly vocal (if not necessarily large) portion of the fanbase.

Kurland is just...bland. And annoying. I'd rather they revisit the character and make him a bit more interesting than just get rid of him.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,488
# 19
10-23-2013, 05:08 PM
Old woman (to painters doing a Greco-Roman painting on the ceiling and walls of a big room): "No, no! I just wanted it a light buff."
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