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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 650
# 11
10-25-2013, 09:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Picture PWE/Cryptic as parents.

They have five children...and some wonder if they'll have a sixth.

Space PvE
Ground PvE
Space PvP
Ground PvP
Space PvE Smallcraft
Space PvP Smallcraft (some wonder, not me - don't care, if this child shall be born)

Mom and Dad only have limited resources. Everybody knows that Space PvE and Ground PvE always get the most attention - even the baby Space PvE Smallcraft has gotten more attention of late.

That leaves the Space PvP and Ground PvP siblings vying for whatever table scraps are left...

...Space PvP may have stood over Ground PvP's bed in the middle of the night while holding a pillow - thinking real hard about doing it, but knowing that they couldn't - that Mom and Dad brought Ground PvP into the world, and it was up to them to get rid of it.

Oddly enough, it may be along the lines of the PvE folks stomping their feet if they mistakenly believe any attention is being given to the PvP folks at all, eh? Heck, it's like the Space PvE and Ground PvE folks going at it...

...everybody knows Cryptic has limited resources...so 'eff everybody else.

The problem is parents force them to live in the same room, break up the skill trees into pvp and pve, balance skill and abilities to pve then create quality factors to increase or decrease impacts in pvp for balance. You can't balance the pve and pvp. The PvP kids could do fine on their own, if they weren't forced into the hand me downs of their pve siblings.

It is a fact that until they make pve AI as good and diverse as pvp opponents.

Here is the rub, so much in pve is reduced or made less effective or enjoyable because the devs have pvp considerations. So even the pve people should want this, because it would allow them to have more abilities to use in pve without the pvp interference.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto: Participation Ribbons are life.
Captain
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,309
# 12
10-25-2013, 09:09 AM
I like how in STO the status quo is the exact reverse of SWG.

Ground ruled there, and space was the red headed stepchild.

XD

Edit: Which is all well and good, in that game space PvP required actual joysticks and fighter pilot skills. It was a twitch based full 360 degree axes space sim, quite a far cry from sub warfare of this game. If you didnt dodge everything incoming, you died. If you couldnt get your blaster bolts on your target, you couldnt win. There wasnt this auto targeting spacebar spamming automated derpmode we see here.

Ground was much the same. You didnt have 1-2-3-4 i win combos like was described earlier in the thread. Even a full stack of spy buffs didnt guarantee a oneshot kill, and always left you defenseless in the end.

You could win a 5 or 6 on 1 in that game if you were good enough. Here its numbers win every time. Especially the "right professions and ships".

The more I compare the PvP of this game to other games, especially those I have hardcore played, the more I get disenfranchised and want to retire from it here. Especially after fiascos like a certain group of "roleplay heroes" using 4 temporal ships and TIF on each with a recluse vs pugs and pugmades last night... I mean really? has pvp in this game really evolved into pugrolling for the sake of it?
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Vice Admiral Kailiana - R.R.W. DNT Theta X || Vice Admiral Talina - I.R.W. DNT Tau X
Vice Admiral Victoria - U.S.S. DNT Upsilon X || Lt. General Dannika - I.K.S. DNT Sigma X
Vice Admiral Shondra - R.R.W. DNT Alpha X || Lt. General Rosanna - I.K.S. DNT Iota X
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Last edited by rylanadionysis; 10-25-2013 at 09:22 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 224
# 13
10-25-2013, 09:36 AM
I dont play ground pvp in this game because you have to choose between space or ground thanks to skill points and traits. Yep min/maxing is required in pvp, sadly.

Now if cryptic separate them completely i would play both.
Captain
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,309
# 14
10-25-2013, 09:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by this1isavailable View Post
I dont play ground pvp in this game because you have to choose between space or ground thanks to skill points and traits. Yep min/maxing is required in pvp, sadly.

Now if cryptic separate them completely i would play both.
This also.

Why is it we can only go to 300k in space, but somehow ground doesnt have a limit?

I mean the only limit for ground is that you have to take points off space to do it. A dedicated ground toon doesnt have any drawbacks skillpoint wise.

Ground should cap its skillpoints allowed at 66000 just like its capped for space at 300k. Thats fair and already built in to the system.
Vice Admiral Rylana - U.S.S. DNT Omega X || Vice Admiral Lyzara - I.R.W. DNT Omicron X
Vice Admiral Kailiana - R.R.W. DNT Theta X || Vice Admiral Talina - I.R.W. DNT Tau X
Vice Admiral Victoria - U.S.S. DNT Upsilon X || Lt. General Dannika - I.K.S. DNT Sigma X
Vice Admiral Shondra - R.R.W. DNT Alpha X || Lt. General Rosanna - I.K.S. DNT Iota X
=== Vice Squad/House of Tlhap-Jen ===
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,215
# 15
10-25-2013, 09:44 AM
I was thinking about it for a moment, and I remembered something that put me off on it right from the start. I haven't played a FPS since 2007, but I used to have my FPS and my MMO PvP side going strong up to that point. I liked them separate. My FPS was my FPS and my MMO PvP was my MMO PvP.

For years (and years) on MMORPG.com or other forums, there were folks that always wanted to mix the two. Yeah, I always dropped out a fat meh in reply. So yeah, that's likely what put me off from the start.

But at the same time, I could see why that would appeal to a bunch of folks...heh, I argued with enough of them over the years.

And as part of the game, it should be supported as much as possible by Cryptic - like any other part of the game, whether we enjoy it or not. Cause in the end, the more enjoyable things available to folks that enjoy different things...the more revenue streams that Cryptic will have overall and the better off STO could potentially be in the end.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,017
# 16
10-25-2013, 09:46 AM
Hey, ground PvP is terrific when you're playing with the right group. It's just that when you're not, it's so, so bad. And for everyone that is, there's another guy on the other end that isn't.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,215
# 17
10-25-2013, 09:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rylanadionysis View Post
This also.

Why is it we can only go to 300k in space, but somehow ground doesnt have a limit?

I mean the only limit for ground is that you have to take points off space to do it. A dedicated ground toon doesnt have any drawbacks skillpoint wise.

Ground should cap its skillpoints allowed at 66000 just like its capped for space at 300k. Thats fair and already built in to the system.
Ground is capped at 100k. You can't fill Ground. There's 80k you can't spend.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,892
# 18
10-25-2013, 09:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milanvorius View Post
I suck at ground, haven't put any time in to learning how to use the kids in ground, nor what equipment is best for ground. This is somewhat due to bad experiences but really the skill tree is the big deal. I spec for space, I don't want a disadvantage there, and I love space. That is not just that I put the minimum points in ground to make my ground the best it can be, but I also put ground skills where I can train the most abilities for bridge officers.

My guy is pathetically prepared for ground pvp, but more than enough to get through ground missions in pve for fun.

People want more ground pvp players then there is going to be a need to not cause space to be sacrificed for ground. I am not alone among my friends. We are willing to break into it and play it but not at the expense of space. We have our priorities and since the dev team made them competitive through the spec system and prevent us from the option of making a ground alt due to rep, we are just forced to avoid ground most the time.
Well, once Season 8 launches, you will be able to reach Tier III in all reputation systems. At Tier III you unlock almost everything you need to do well in Ground PvP. Reaching Tier V Omega Force will give you the Mk XII sets and the Omega 10 minute heal. Tier V New Romulus will give you the Plasma/Disruptor Hybrid weapons, but Tier III is all you need for the majority of Ground PvP. That really just leaves the actual leveling of a new character for ground PvP. Good news, it just so happens that Cryptic is running a double XP event at the moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rylanadionysis View Post
I like how in STO the status quo is the exact reverse of SWG.

Ground was much the same. You didnt have 1-2-3-4 i win combos like was described earlier in the thread. Even a full stack of spy buffs didnt guarantee a oneshot kill, and always left you defenseless in the end.

You could win a 5 or 6 on 1 in that game if you were good enough. Here its numbers win every time. Especially the "right professions and ships".

The more I compare the PvP of this game to other games, especially those I have hardcore played, the more I get disenfranchised and want to retire from it here.
The combo I described above requires two players to perform, a science officer and a tactical officer. You can live though it, but only if you have buff abilities active at that time. There are no i win attack combos in this game for ground. There are combinations intended to reach quick kills, but such attacks don't guarantee kills. Everything on the ground has a counter.

You've mentioned that you have had bad experiences with Ground PvP in the past. If you'd ever like to give learning Ground PvP a try, you are welcome to message me ingame, I'd be more than happy to help you.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 715
# 19
10-25-2013, 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
I agree just delete ground pvp already.
I'd say the opposite...please delete Space and concentrate on ground LOL. Space is overrated...the real challenge is on GROUND

TROLL POST since this is a biased assessment
[

Last edited by crusader2007; 10-25-2013 at 10:27 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,506
# 20
10-25-2013, 11:02 AM
Don't fight a losing battle, ground will never be as popular as space in this game. EVER!!!

It's called Star Trek for a reason... People come here to do Picard's maneuvers.

That is a shame though, sto ground can be pretty fun once you get into it.
Reality is WAR.

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