Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,181
# 1 Martok Class Bird of Prey
10-25-2013, 08:28 PM
Type: Raider

Tier: 5

Hull: 25,000

Shields 0.81

Weapons: 4 Forward 2 Aft

Crew: 60

Bridge Officers: Commander Universal , Lt. Commander Universal , Lieutenant Universal , Lieutenant Universal , Ensign Universal

Device Slots: 2

Consoles: 3 Tactical , 3 Science , 3 Engineering

Turn Rate: 20

Impulse Modifer: 0.20

Inertia Rating: 70

Bonus Power: +15 Weapons

Abilities: Battle Cloak

Special Console: Rally Cry Communication System

Broadcasts Klingon rally cry that strikes fear into the heart of your nearby enemies (within weapons range) causing a lowering of all their skills for 30 seconds. Additionally improves moral of all nearby ally (within weapons range) Klingon ships improving all their skills for 30 seconds.

Other: Has the ability to use K'Vort class skin with wings staying up in combat

Last edited by marshalericdavid; 10-25-2013 at 08:35 PM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,400
# 2
10-25-2013, 10:07 PM
Compare your ship to the Fleet Norgh BOP.

A bit less Hull and a Bit more Shields. An 2 Lt.Com vs an Ensign (Both have 12 BOFF abilities) and it turns better 22 vs your 20.

Other than the special Console what is unique about your design? We need more ships, we don't need ships nearly identical to the ones we have.

One of the fairest compromises the Raider class makes is less BOFF abilities for a complete Universal layout. I accept the F Norgh's 9 Consoles as a fair trade.

The Problem is the weak hull and shields and lower weapons for Battle Cloak vs the new Romulan ships.

Our biggest problem with BoPs and Raptors is that Romulan Tactical Warbirds (most of them) all come with 4/3 weapons and Battle Cloak. They generally have More hull and shields too.

How about Subsystem Targeting and Sensor Analysis becoming standard on all 3 Tac Console BoPs? The only way to fix BoPs and Raptors is radical change.

The problem with Radical change is your Purchased BoP/Raptor is now no longer what you paid for. Considering I want to Buff BoPs not many of you will complain but I'm completely redesigning Raptors.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,181
# 3
10-25-2013, 10:39 PM
Similar but different is something I like don't want any 1 ship to make all others if its type to become obsolete. 1 more bridge officer station = 1 more bridge officer providing space traits.

I don't really consider fewer bridge officer stations fair because you have both less powers to use except for the fleet Norg and fewer potential space traits.

Less hull,shields,weapons slots and bridge officer stations is totally unfair for having full universal stations and battle cloak especially now that Romulan are in game with even better battle cloaks.

Subsystem Targeting and Sensor Analysis is a Science ship thing. A thing that is not really all that great. Sensor Analysis is easily broken. Subsystem Targeting only works if you have a Beam weapon I like to not use Beams on a Bird of Prey like it to fight more like what is seen in the shows and movies.

Bird of Prey ships and even Raptors do all need some improvement. A 5th bridge officer station is the biggest improvement I would like for Bird of Prey ships because I hate having both fewer powers to use and fewer space traits. Raptors could use more hull or maybe even some armor bonus for having more hull resistance to all types of damage.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,203
# 4
10-26-2013, 12:05 AM
IMO raptors are fine. They have equivalent HP to Fed escorts and Rom tactical warbirds. The Qin has 33k HP which is actually above average for escorts (ships like the Defiant, Prometheus, and T5 Akira have less HP), although they do have weaker shields.

There is no 5 tac console raptor, which both of the other factions have, so I'd support a new raptor with that. But if it doesn't come it won't bother me overly much. Maybe boost the shield mod a little too.

The problem with Birds-of-prey is that their hull and shields are pitifully low, it has a science vessel's weapons layout (by that I mean limited to 6 weapons, while a SV is more balanced the BoP has a strong foward bias) and the advantage of having an all universal boff layout no longer justifies the low HP IMO. (if it ever did) Either give it an escort's weapon layout and up the hull/shields to match, or retain the science vessel layout but give it SV bonuses and hull - stuff like sensor analysis and subsystem targeting, with around 27k hull on average. Or some other innate ability that's more in line thematically with a BoP - like, maybe better ambush damage from coming out of cloak like in every example of a BoP ever? Or extra shield penetration a la Duras sisters from Generations?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 117
# 5
10-26-2013, 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marshalericdavid View Post
Type: Raider

Tier: 5

Hull: 25,000

Shields 0.81

Weapons: 4 Forward 2 Aft

Crew: 60

Bridge Officers: Commander Universal , Lt. Commander Universal , Lieutenant Universal , Lieutenant Universal , Ensign Universal

Device Slots: 2

Consoles: 3 Tactical , 3 Science , 3 Engineering

Turn Rate: 20

Impulse Modifer: 0.20

Inertia Rating: 70

Bonus Power: +15 Weapons

Abilities: Battle Cloak

Special Console: Rally Cry Communication System

Broadcasts Klingon rally cry that strikes fear into the heart of your nearby enemies (within weapons range) causing a lowering of all their skills for 30 seconds. Additionally improves moral of all nearby ally (within weapons range) Klingon ships improving all their skills for 30 seconds.

Other: Has the ability to use K'Vort class skin with wings staying up in combat
the B'rel retro fit which I fly currently has a crew of 30, turn rate is higher and its shield rating is higher, and hull is better.

I would say your ship is sub par, I mean you have a battle cloak....big deal and the weapon power bonus the b'rel gets as well.

that console would also be sub-par...as it lowers skills of people who have like skills of 100, and since they will use aux to battery mostly they wont care.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,643
# 6
10-26-2013, 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marshalericdavid View Post
Type: Raider

Tier: 5

Hull: 25,000

Shields 0.81

Weapons: 4 Forward 2 Aft

Crew: 60

Bridge Officers: Commander Universal , Lt. Commander Universal , Lieutenant Universal , Lieutenant Universal , Ensign Universal

Device Slots: 2

Consoles: 3 Tactical , 3 Science , 3 Engineering

Turn Rate: 20

Impulse Modifer: 0.20

Inertia Rating: 70

Bonus Power: +15 Weapons

Abilities: Battle Cloak

Special Console: Rally Cry Communication System

Broadcasts Klingon rally cry that strikes fear into the heart of your nearby enemies (within weapons range) causing a lowering of all their skills for 30 seconds. Additionally improves moral of all nearby ally (within weapons range) Klingon ships improving all their skills for 30 seconds.

Other: Has the ability to use K'Vort class skin with wings staying up in combat
suggested fixes to bring this up above the current (low) standards...

Impulse Mod: .23 to .25.

Turn Rate:22

Inertia: 80

Item slots: 3 instead of the usual 2.

Martok's philosophy of battle (as articulated in the introduction to the Haynes Manual on the Bird of Prey) focuses on stick-and-move tactics. A BoP named in his honour should emphasize the philosophy of hit-and-run or stick-and-move combat-i.e. it should be one of the most manueverable ships in the game, and fast-as in fast enough to speed-tank at low engine power, with good inertial numbers and a very high turn rate.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,181
# 7
10-26-2013, 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psychickitty View Post
the B'rel retro fit which I fly currently has a crew of 30, turn rate is higher and its shield rating is higher, and hull is better.

I would say your ship is sub par, I mean you have a battle cloak....big deal and the weapon power bonus the b'rel gets as well.

that console would also be sub-par...as it lowers skills of people who have like skills of 100, and since they will use aux to battery mostly they wont care.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/B%27rel_Bird-of-Prey_Retrofit

According to that the B'Rel has less hull and shields. Yes B'Rel has more turn because I don't want any 1 Bird of Prey to be better then another at almost everything.

Lowering enemy skills wile increasing your skills and allies is not really that bad. Now it is true it might not be a great console but usually special consoles are not that great anyways with a few exceptions.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 926
# 8
10-26-2013, 04:58 PM
I like the name.
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