Captain
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,014
# 11
11-04-2013, 10:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by timezarg View Post
Yeah, Cryptic basically approached the KDF as if it were an armored version of the Federation, when the Klingon Empire has NEVER been like that. If aliens served on ships, they did so as menial labor. Klingons have always filled in the need for manpower.

Having all manner of species wandering around on KDF installations/planets is just immersion-breaking for anyone who gets stuck on that detail.

At the very least, it would have been nice to have different dialogue for every sub-species, to emphasize the fact that there are supposed to be differences in culture and outlook. But that would require Cryptic actually caring about the KDF's development and actually devoting significant resources to flesh out the faction entirely. Much better to just slap on the missing levels, re-do the tutorial, and declare it 100% finished.
Well, personally, one way to look at that, is they're getting too stretched thin, and have subjugated too many differing kingdoms/empires, to get away with treating them all as incapable of being warriors, and only fit for menial labourers. As well, specifically to the Orions, heck, sure the Orions did ask to become part of the Empire, however, if they had thought they would be treated as garbage, I think they would either have gone off on their own (Orion mini empire anyone?), or the Klin would really have a bad criminal element, acting against, and sabotaging, every facet of their Empire (and the Orions are fully capable of doing just that).
Whereas, with the current status, all the differing races that are currently capable under KDF laws and regulations, of becoming ships' crew and commanders, have a stake in seeing the KDF prosper.

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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,268
# 12
11-05-2013, 04:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by earlnyghthawk View Post
Well, personally, one way to look at that, is they're getting too stretched thin, and have subjugated too many differing kingdoms/empires, to get away with treating them all as incapable of being warriors, and only fit for menial labourers. As well, specifically to the Orions, heck, sure the Orions did ask to become part of the Empire, however, if they had thought they would be treated as garbage, I think they would either have gone off on their own (Orion mini empire anyone?), or the Klin would really have a bad criminal element, acting against, and sabotaging, every facet of their Empire (and the Orions are fully capable of doing just that).
Whereas, with the current status, all the differing races that are currently capable under KDF laws and regulations, of becoming ships' crew and commanders, have a stake in seeing the KDF prosper.
Well, technically they've only subjugated one 'empire' recently, that being the Gorn Hegemony. The Orions are more like allies than subject species. The Letheans are little more than mercenaries who don't have full citizenship. The Nausicaans were somehow subjugated along with the Gorn, though I generally view them as having the same status as Letheans. I don't even know what the backstory is supposed to be for the Ferasans.

When the Klingons started expanding from Qo'noS, they conquered many alien races that happened to be in the way. There are likely many subject races, they just aren't seen in the Klingon Defense Force, and they don't mix a whole lot with the ruling species (Klingons).

As for the Empire getting stretched too thin. . .doubtful. Not when you consider how the KDF operates. The skill of the average KDF conscript/volunteer doesn't match that of a trained officer in Starfleet (Ensign or above), and probably doesn't match the skill of most Starfleet non-coms (trained engineers, w/e). They're trained to fight hand-to-hand (boarding, invading planets, etc) and utilize most Klingon technology they'll likely come across. That opens the labor pool significantly, because they don't have to go through a 4-year training course like Starfleet personnel have to. It takes an enemy like the Dominion to really stretch the military capability of the Klingon Empire.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 127
# 13
11-05-2013, 12:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
I would love to see a Gorn rebellion storyline that offers Gorn flavored rewards and a storyline written from their PoV.
I would love to see an Orion subterfuqe storyline that shows what they are really up to and brought to Jmpok to become a part of the faction with Orion flavored rewards and PoV.
I would also love to see a Nauscican mini storyline of missions that offers the same.

Such a series of missions would both feed the fans of those races and give a better image of the KDF being a loose allaince of races instead of a fed faction clone with spiky bits.

Ambassador S'taass, what do you have to say to that idea?

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I couldn?t resist!

What I realy want is for Cryptic to break with doctrine. Say with the Voth. It is pretty clear that they are simply taking what was presented in Voyager and running with it. It feels like classic boring humanwank fanfiction.

I would realy love it if we would find out the the Voyager crew were wrong about the Voth origin (so they are actually natural to their Quadrant in space and any resemblance with dinousaurs is pure coincidence) and would most assuredly rejoice at some J'mpok love, fed tears would be a welcome bonus
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,088
# 14
11-05-2013, 04:19 PM
It would also be nice if us Letheans got mentioned at all, the whole race is a blank slate pretty much beyond we know they are telepathic and live shorter lives than a lot of species (80 years).
Cryptic could do a hell of a lot with that blank slate if they wanted.
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Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,759
# 15
11-05-2013, 07:06 PM
Culture? A lot of these races don't even have any females! If you play as a Gorn or a Lethean you can't find a nice girl and settle down. And the KDF probably isn't the don't ask don't tell type.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,268
# 16
11-05-2013, 09:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zipagat View Post
It would also be nice if us Letheans got mentioned at all, the whole race is a blank slate pretty much beyond we know they are telepathic and live shorter lives than a lot of species (80 years).
Cryptic could do a hell of a lot with that blank slate if they wanted.
Yeah, a Lethean sci-heavy escort would be nifty. Or a Lethean science ship. Some storyline episodes giving the Lethean species a bit of substance would be nice, too.
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Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,841
# 17
11-06-2013, 03:21 AM
OP, you have some very cool ideas here, although I really can't see some of them happeining with the current level of development.

For example, I think having a free ship model at each tier for each of the species within the KDF is a pipedream, considering it's taking us near 2 years to get a single T5 ship. I am also extremely doubtfull about separate storylines for those species since it seems that the focus from now on is on crossfaction content (model that I don't really like), although I'd love Cryptic to prove me wrong and hit us with that thunder from a clear sky. hehe
Having the rumors that dStahl is working on new KDF content, I certainly hope they prove me wrong and show us that even if most end-game is unified, we can expect a couple of those amazing faction specific missions every now and then which would be amazing and I for one would be very gartefull if we get this.

What I think we can realisticaly expect to get at a certain point in time is the following:

- A species specific bridge pack in the C-Store (3 bridges - Orion/Nausicaan/Gorn)
- A pair of canon Klingon costumes in the C-Store, and aditional species specific costumes in the lobi store (and only if we ask a lot for this)
- Adjustments to Boff skils that would enable the KDF to have at least some selection of space Boff traits (probably will come together with Fed. Boff adjustments)
- Species specific conversations - now this is a tricky one, while I really can't see the devs. going back and re-doing all of the KDF missions to fit each of the species present, I do believe that it's possible in future (especially KDF specific) content this to be implemented. From what I've heard, the new Federation tutorial dialogue is created in a way that takes into account the species you're playing, something that is also quite new and rare on the Federation side. That gives me the faith that maybe the same could happen in any future KDF content with the KDF species.

Other than that, I do like the idea about the species specific Captain and Boff skills which would get somekind of synergy bonuses in the away team or if the ship you're flying is a species specific ship from the same race as your Captain. I really like this, this would be cool as a unique element for the KDF because the KDF is more of an loose alliance of species with similar current interests unlike the Federation where the planets apply for membership and form one single government.
I think the devs. would do well to take a serious look at this idea, this is something that could bring a new exciting and fun element to the KDF, improve the sales of the species specific ships in the C-Store as well as a nice adition in the RP department.
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Last edited by shpoks; 11-06-2013 at 03:24 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,047
# 18
11-06-2013, 07:06 AM
The fact that STOs "Empire" is just a red federation bothered me from the start. It doesn't make any sense and doesn't give enough credit to the involved people we know from Star Trek. It's especially ridiculous that Qo'Nos is populated by 60-70% "outsiders" - Klingons wouldn't tolerate that, the same goes for giving away their equipment and military secrets etc. - I'm especially bothered by the Orions which pretty much ARE the new Empire since they simply infiltrated every single house and zero f's were given by our brave warriors...

What I think should have been done (will never happen, though) is that every ally/vassal to the Klingon Empire got their own social zone, e.g. Homeworld/Space station with it's own short missions that explain why the F you are "member" of the Empire. Every people should have their own vessels, of course a Nausicaan playr could purchae the other ship as well but the social zone's shipyard would distribute unique ship(s) for every ally species.

The Klingon Empire just doesn't work like a red federation would with all the shared instances. You would especially not see a Gorn ambassador talking in Klingon cliches or Orions caring about the whole warrior's honour.

The KDF faction is a major screw-up for every single fan of it's portrayed subfactions. Honestly, who wanted to play an Orion wearing a Klingon uniform, commanding Klingon ships and be adressed as such?
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Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 462
# 19
11-06-2013, 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bronzephantom View Post
I agree, we aren't a armored version of the Federation, we don't use sick and unethical things like diplomacy, subterfuge, and the subverting of all cultures that they coexist with we don't use such foul means of treachery, nor do we just say the phrase "prime directive" as a excuse not to intervene on a morally wrong issue.

They will leave their own citizens to die to a foreign power* and rather then help them and did NOTHING about it, Worse yet they called their own citizens traitors for defending themselves yet it was the Federation that betrayed their own citizens, We Klingons however helped them It was the honorable thing to do, while the Federation just sat back on their soft and weak rear ends saying that we were the unethical, bloodthirsty, unintelligent, slow, and evil in the flesh, The attitude of the Federation is sick for being such a 'tolerant' and 'peace loving' galactic power.

*See the Demilitarized zone.
Actually the prime directive is not an excuse to not get involved in morally wrong things that are happening.

The prime directive has to do with not getting involved in the natural evolution of a species.

Like LT. Tom Paris did on Voyager Episode 30 Days.

Or like the Horizon did to the society on the planet Sigma Iota II.
Kirk, Spock and Mccoy had to fix the damage which was done by the Federation in the first place.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,197
# 20
11-06-2013, 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob2485 View Post
Actually the prime directive is not an excuse to not get involved in morally wrong things that are happening.

The prime directive has to do with not getting involved in the natural evolution of a species.

Like LT. Tom Paris did on Voyager Episode 30 Days.

Or like the Horizon did to the society on the planet Sigma Iota II.
Kirk, Spock and Mccoy had to fix the damage which was done by the Federation in the first place.
There's a difference in fixing a major problem and causing harm which the Prime Directive is supposed to stop.

In the instance of Kirk and Co, the prime directive had already been broken. They were duty bound to fix the damage.
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