Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,891
# 11
11-05-2013, 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seansamurai1 View Post
Balanced?

Sooo basically a limited firing arc heavy hitting weapon, you know, DHC, the weapon thats designed to be V powerful gets out DPS'd by a weapon with much much much bigger firing arcs is seen as normal then?

Or the fact that escorts, ya know, the ships that are supposed to be small, fast and deadly but have the trade off of a limited firing range and firing arc and a BOff setup that needs to be balanced between offensive and defensive, is now totally outclassed by a ship that whilst bigger and heavier (thus slower but stronger), has the superior survivability setup with BOffs, virtually no blindspots when shooting but throws out more DPS that the very ships that are supposed to do the DPS but thats seen as normal?
It's only canon .

http://youtu.be/g6Kod0F-MD0?t=3m29s
Reality is WAR
KHG Klingon Honor Guard
Captain
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 604
# 12
11-05-2013, 04:16 PM
If thats the case then. The JHAS isnt and never has been OP (not that it is in all fairness), I mean they can take on Romulan D'deridex with ease, Galaxy classes and even a space station.
Or a peregrin fighter against a Bortas with the back up of defiant.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 200
# 13
11-05-2013, 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
your lucky if an enemy FAW boat just spams FAW the whole time, 1 person is being spared the brunt of ts firepower. the only thing truly out of hand is scimitars with beam arrays.

cannon and BO vapers are still the most deadly and effective killers. cruisers just arent harmless anymore.
Have to agree with you here. Cruisers aren't necessarily overpowered...however, I would like to see them be good at something other then Aux2Batt DEM APB FAW-spam. :/
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,794
# 14
11-05-2013, 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by torvinecho25 View Post
Have to agree with you here. Cruisers aren't necessarily overpowered...however, I would like to see them be good at something other then Aux2Batt DEM APB FAW-spam. :/
i dont really understand why people want them to be something else. do they want escorts to be something other then zippy cannon and spike boats? this is what cruisers are, those are the tools they have been given, and they are useing them. a cruiser not using AtB, FAW, and DEM is called a healer. we are lucky cruisers can have such range of jobs, thanks to AtB.
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,891
# 15
11-05-2013, 05:18 PM
Aren't a2b+dem+faw broken at the moment?
Reality is WAR
KHG Klingon Honor Guard
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 867
# 16
11-05-2013, 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
i dont really understand why people want them to be something else. do they want escorts to be something other then zippy cannon and spike boats? this is what cruisers are, those are the tools they have been given, and they are useing them. a cruiser not using AtB, FAW, and DEM is called a healer. we are lucky cruisers can have such range of jobs, thanks to AtB.
The problem is, there is no tradeoff. If you put cannons or dual cannons on a cruiser and use cannon scatter volley, you realize very quickly that there is a huge tradeoff between your ability to do high DPS and your ability to keep your target in your sights.

If you put beams on your cruiser and do a A2B+FaW build, you still do the DPS but now you do not have the tradeoff of firing arc.

You are seeing more and more escorts trying the same build because they can often do more damage simply by speed tanking and using an A2B build with FaW than they can with a traditional DHC build.

That is a pretty big indicator of an imbalance.

Either the output needs to be readjusted or we just need to eliminate cannons as a unique damage type and make all weapons calculate damage in the same way.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 17
11-05-2013, 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
i dont really understand why people want them to be something else. do they want escorts to be something other then zippy cannon and spike boats? this is what cruisers are, those are the tools they have been given, and they are useing them. a cruiser not using AtB, FAW, and DEM is called a healer. we are lucky cruisers can have such range of jobs, thanks to AtB.

Here's the problem with that:

What range of jobs does the Escort have?



It doesn't, it has one job. Deal Damage.


When you are only designed for one role, you need to excel at it.

Not be "3-10% better" or "a little bit better" - but "significantly and clearly better".

Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,527
# 18
11-05-2013, 07:31 PM
While looking at the original Topic..

Personally, PVP has lost some thing in terms of being fun.

Old man rant
Back in my Day I remember when you could just use the gear that dropped, none of those fancy smancy Fleet Weapons, or Set bonuses..

Now if you don't have that you get blown up quicker then you can say Wt-<boom!>
/Old man rant

I just miss how things were about a year or two ago.. Before the Fleet and Rep bonuses were introduced. Before the Powercreep made the game less fun for me. And before grinding became a near required evil.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,158
# 19
11-05-2013, 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by logicalspock View Post
If you put beams on your cruiser and do a A2B+FaW build, you still do the DPS but now you do not have the tradeoff of firing arc.
I wouldn't say there's no tradeoff. Beam arrays have a 250-degree firing arc, so your effective firing arc is merely 70 degrees to the sides. Your agility remains fairly bad, especially compared to an EPTE Escort, who can easily stay out of this arc or simply duck out of range. A FAWboat isn't nearly as agile.

Additionally, your damage is undirected. Additional targets, including things which you shouldn't shoot, diffuse your damage and can even harm you and your team. On top of that, configured in this manner, your ship is nearly entirely inflexible. Every single slot on your ship is being utilized for this singular purpose, leaving you with nothing else that you can do: Your ability to crossheal is even worse than an Escort's now, since at least an Escort has a functional Hazard Emitter and TSS on demand, whereas you do not: Yours is locked to a specific cycle if you want it to be worth anything, or tied to battery cooldown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by logicalspock View Post
You are seeing more and more escorts trying the same build because they can often do more damage simply by speed tanking and using an A2B build with FaW than they can with a traditional DHC build.
ATB-FAW is almost wholly redundant on an Escort, since they have no problems carrying enough tactical powers without the need to resort to chicanery. BeamScorts have always been around.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,794
# 20
11-05-2013, 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by logicalspock View Post
The problem is, there is no tradeoff. If you put cannons or dual cannons on a cruiser and use cannon scatter volley, you realize very quickly that there is a huge tradeoff between your ability to do high DPS and your ability to keep your target in your sights.

If you put beams on your cruiser and do a A2B+FaW build, you still do the DPS but now you do not have the tradeoff of firing arc.

You are seeing more and more escorts trying the same build because they can often do more damage simply by speed tanking and using an A2B build with FaW than they can with a traditional DHC build.

That is a pretty big indicator of an imbalance.

Either the output needs to be readjusted or we just need to eliminate cannons as a unique damage type and make all weapons calculate damage in the same way.
i dont know about anyone else, but when i put DHC on a battle cruiser i quickly see that its completely viable and awesome.

everyone is so melodramatic about beams now. flying around in one of these cruisers hitting faw as often as possible only blows up your score, and halfs or worst your effectiveness. only if there 3 or more of you doing that is it a problem. i could name 10 other things that when theres to much of it its a big problem too. like the other elephant in the room, GW.

im really not sure what game you are all playing, but its the escorts with their actual spike damage that still get the best results. you have to blow up your DPS to a huge amount in one of these cruisers to be truly dangerous, and then your more fragile then any escort thats got speed and mobility on its side. the only thing with beams that totally overwhelming is the scimitar, those should be bared from using beam arrays imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Here's the problem with that:

What range of jobs does the Escort have?



It doesn't, it has one job. Deal Damage.


When you are only designed for one role, you need to excel at it.

Not be "3-10% better" or "a little bit better" - but "significantly and clearly better".
dont act like a cruiser can be both a healer and a dps machine at the same time, only then would there be a problem. spike and timing are still overwhelmingly more effective at actually killing something. except in the case of beam scimitars.

you have run to many beam premades if you think 1 lone beam cruiser is as dangerous as 1 good lone escort at killing.


the beam premade problem is fixed by haveing faw not fire 10 shots per cycle, but 5. then they just need to bar beam arrays from scimitars. if they did that, they may not even need to do anything about overcaping.
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