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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 551
# 101
03-12-2013, 03:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcademaster View Post
No offense, but judging by the rest of your post you also don't understand the game very well.
And you are that player that talks about DPS and holding down your grinding uncomfortably. Very likely I am such a player that holds down your grinding uncomfortably. Well good luck with playing STO elite and for the rest of the day I am going to try to understand the game.

You know, I do get aggro sometimes doing a red alert. How is that possible with my not very pro build and baby damage? According to some posts here the game is not working well. These people seem to understand the game, which isn't working as it should. How do you do that? Understanding a game that isn't working proper.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 542
# 102
03-12-2013, 04:41 AM
You can play the game whatever way you enjoy. Just don't come to threads like this and say that there are no problems when what you want to say in reality is "Personally I don't care". One is an opinion and the other requires convincing arguments.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 143
# 103
03-12-2013, 07:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by melisande77 View Post
I still do not think you are making good enough arguments for why TANK-CC/HEALER-DPS is needed in a starship combat game. Your general premise seems to be it promotes grouping (it makes grouping mandatory, which is different from promoting it) and that it adds difficulty(Plenty of far more interesting methods of difficulty/coordination than what the trinity provides.)


Again we want to have difficult content, or at least engaging content, and STO does not have the best track record of that. I agree. Encounter design should step up. But we can add no fly zones, abilities you have to react to, weak spots to attack, without resorting to the trinity.

The game has already done a very good job of making the escort into this http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/d/.../Xwing_RS3.jpg

Why can we not turn the cruiser into this?
http://images.wikia.com/cybernations..._Firing_lg.jpg

And the sci ship into this?
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/i/20..._R_Corrode.jpg

I'm not sure if this was aimed at me, but I just want to say that I hope I haven't come off as "Nooooooo, please don't make beams equivalent to cannons!" I'm honestly not against or for it. The only way I would be against it is if Escorts were kept as squishy as they are but cruisers started doing as much damage as escorts (but perhaps the difference in tac boff stations would balance this out?)

I know a lot of threads purpose is an attempt to "educate" the community on why something should be different, the purpose seems to be that the op is trying to convince the community of something - My post was to educate myself, because I can acknowledge and accept that something needs to be done. Like I said, I have no problem soloing missions or doing pvp, but the thing that bothers me with how cruisers are is that it's so time consuming to get dailies done, but that's personally my only problem with them
and I'm sure other people have other legit reasons for why they don't like cruisers or sci ships the way they are.

What I'm saying is it's difficult for me to wrap my head around this subject which is why I'm really enjoying this thread and seeing different views of the argument.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,753
# 104
03-12-2013, 09:44 AM
"Its time consuming to do dailes in a cruiser" should not be the reason for a buff to cruisers.
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Ensign
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 4
# 105
11-06-2013, 12:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
"Its time consuming to do dailes in a cruiser" should not be the reason for a buff to cruisers.
Why not? Seriously.

The end game is all about blowing through the content the fastest with the highest DPS rating, because that is what gets the rewards.

I have been using the vet destroyer because I can place in STFs, where my cruiser and my sci cannot. The game needs something for sci and cruiser love. The communications array is a start, the anti-proton 360 beam is a great start, but the BEST way in my opinion is to reward what cruisers and sci vessels do. Don't reward DPS only, reward DPS, damage taken (shield and hull), heals, systems disabled, etc. Tweak the algorithm over time to properly reward all roles. By rewarding more aspects, the extra time it takes to do PVE missions means more reward, it balances out over time.

Edit: Don't let the ensign rating fool you, I've been around on and off since Beta.

Last edited by ranthul; 11-06-2013 at 12:33 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 620
# 106
11-06-2013, 12:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff484 View Post
I'm not sure if this was aimed at me, but I just want to say that I hope I haven't come off as "Nooooooo, please don't make beams equivalent to cannons!" I'm honestly not against or for it. The only way I would be against it is if Escorts were kept as squishy as they are but cruisers started doing as much damage as escorts (but perhaps the difference in tac boff stations would balance this out?)

I know a lot of threads purpose is an attempt to "educate" the community on why something should be different, the purpose seems to be that the op is trying to convince the community of something - My post was to educate myself, because I can acknowledge and accept that something needs to be done. Like I said, I have no problem soloing missions or doing pvp, but the thing that bothers me with how cruisers are is that it's so time consuming to get dailies done, but that's personally my only problem with them
and I'm sure other people have other legit reasons for why they don't like cruisers or sci ships the way they are.

What I'm saying is it's difficult for me to wrap my head around this subject which is why I'm really enjoying this thread and seeing different views of the argument.
How about learning to play the damn game and not making 250 degrees arc weapons be like 45 degrees dhc ?How about asking for pve missions that need cruisers and not turning cruisers into whatever you need.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ranthul View Post
Why not? Seriously.

The end game is all about blowing through the content the fastest with the highest DPS rating, because that is what gets the rewards.

so why not give insta kill weapons just because you want to kill some npcs 20000000000 times in a row.All games are balanced for pvp not pve....NPCs don't spend money nor can come here to complain about unbalanced shets.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,429
# 107
11-06-2013, 01:36 AM
lol. how things change
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Career Officer
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 443
# 108
11-06-2013, 01:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldicephoenix View Post
The problem is the game is DPS oriented.
Simple example: Do Dilithium reward STF like scout force or minefield... they reward the one with the most DPS. So unless you are running DHCs or the like or have exceptional capability as a beam boat captain and the escort capns are noobs, you cant make it to the top place. Lets not even start with the Starbase defence...
Now as for the Borg STFs, the optional time can be met if everyone has good dps. Even a tac officer in an escort can do some crowd control in these.
Oh and sci capns got hit hard by the nerf hammer

The game doesnt reward tanks and healers as much as damage dealers

To an extent the only STF I can see that kinda rewards tank style play is the Azure Nebula rescue where a tank can lead away the tholians while the rest of the team frees the ships.
It seems the issue is reward and not DPS then. I can see that. The problem is as it stands, Tacts got hit hard with that nerf hammer too when they made Going down only usable at less than 50% hull. To be honest, in an escort, it seems like the only time you get below 50% is when everything is already on cooldown so the most dps you're going to get out of going down is what ever you can push out before the last round hits while your buttox is clenched as tightly as possible.

As I've learned from other MMO's, its very rude to suggest that the game's developers nerf a certain class, in fact many MMO's forums will immediately close these types of threads. Instead, it is desired to have people give their advice of what to IMPROVE in the other classes.

As I see it, science officers are pretty well set. I'm not sure what nerf you're referring to, but I don't see it with my science VA. I just came out of a Crystaline Elite Pug and made first place in the Vesta with GREEN disruptors Mk XI and the Aegis set.

However, using the Crystline Entity as a baseline, I find it harder for my Fleet Armatage to make first place because of how much he dies or has to get out of range to heal up. This is usually due to no one wanting to debuff the darn mobs. But this is a fine demonstration to the class plague of the escort ships for the DPS tradeoff.

Then you have lol cruisers. A ship, while captained by an engineer with Grace CANNOT DIE, I say that literally because from all the Elite STF's, Crystiline Entities, and anything I've done, I have never had the pleasure of repairing my ship and died only once because I couldn't get out of the entity's way fast enough after having a damned mob tractor me in place the moment I get the "absorbing energy" message (btw devs, this is very annoying, fix it please). What's the cruiser's trade-off I asked? Well its not DPS, because their dps is better than that of a vesta. Its not lack of abilities, ALL engineer abilities are unrestricted and unconditional, unlike that of science and tactical officers. I mean Miracle Worker LULZ at mobs. There is no tradeoff to a cruiser beam boat. Sure you're not strong-arming the dps of an escort, but you're also NOT DYING LIKE ONE EITHER and LOOSING dps because of the death cooldown or EC from the field repairs.

When I see folks trying to call for nerfs of other classes, I can only think of one thing: Their own class is already so overpowered, they can't think of a single item that would actually benefit them to equate to the class they're wanting nerfed. And I believe that is more fact than thought. Yes, if you are indeed requesting that your beam boat be equivalent to that of an escort's dual heavy cannons which are only effective under 5km, then you are indeed calling for their nerf. You are also going to purposely devoid this game of any reason, whatsoever to get into an escort other than pure role-play. I care not either way, I have a VA of each class, though my tactical was my first and still is today my baby -- but I can play any of the others just as easy. However, not everyone has completely maxed out their primary character which could very well be a tactical officer, and by giving them no purpose or desirability in this game will likely alienate these players causing them to seek out other MMOs.

The OP was very right that Escorts are a breed of ships that takes CONSTANT attention. You have to watch your shields and hull, you have to watch which way you are facing, and judging angles in a game where the camera tends to swing can get in the way, and above all, if you don't have the mob in that narrow 45deg angle, you aren't doing jack for dps. Which means 40% of the time, you're either sitting still or have your back to the mob and doing no dps. And an escort that is sitting still is a fish in a barrel in a camp of hungry fishermen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
lol. how things change
I just wanted to say, I've never seen a more disturbing avatar
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.

Last edited by lordlalo; 11-06-2013 at 02:16 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 35
# 109
11-06-2013, 10:49 AM
Personally I would think that the only thing needed here is to once and for all eliminate the weapon power drain mechanic from weapons. When your shields are regenerating you don't see your shield power drop. When you are moving around in combat you don't see your engine power drop. When you are using sci powers you don't see your aux power drop. Why them does your weapon power drop?!?!? Eliminate this power falloff and you will see EVERYONE a little bit happier because EVERYONE will get what they want.... more DPS.

OR....

some other idea to deal with cruisers that is NOT voted on or thought up by anyone that likes/uses escorts because we all know they are bias. JK :p

This has been my 2 ECs
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,903
# 110
11-06-2013, 10:51 AM
My 2 ECs

Beams are better at taking multiple targets and having a good coverage of fire and getting most weapons on target at multiple angles.

Cannons are better at hammering down a single target with brutal efficiency. So for me, and I could be wrong, but cannons are better at PvP when you're trying to focus in on 1 target while beams are better for PVE when usually you're dealing with multiple targets at once.
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