Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 21
11-05-2013, 08:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
dont act like a cruiser can be both a healer and a dps machine at the same time
That's not what I said.

The topic was "a range of builds".

I'll ask again, what are the range of builds available to escorts outside of dealing damage?



Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
, only then would there be a problem. spike and timing are still overwhelmingly more effective at actually killing something. except in the case of beam scimitars.
You've made statements like this before, once about Single Cannons.

While at the same time, guys in my fleet were running very effective Single Cannon + BO Tac/Cruiser builds in actual Premade matches against very good competition (we didn't actually bring them up on the forums for quite a while because it was more useful to be underestimated).




Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
you have run to many beam premades if you think 1 lone beam cruiser is as dangerous as 1 good lone escort at killing.
You've run too many PUG matches and C&H if you think 1 lone escort is good for anything in a premade.


A lone warbird, sure. Visible escorts on the other hand continue to be devalued.


Last edited by ussultimatum; 11-05-2013 at 08:59 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,720
# 22
11-05-2013, 09:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
That's not what I said.

The topic was "a range of builds".

I'll ask again, what are the range of builds available to escorts outside of dealing damage?

both escorts and cruiser cant do more then 1 thing well enough to mater at a time. if the actual iconic star trek ships have a wider range of possible disciplines, im not going to have a problem with that. dps cruisers are not cloneing and doing exactly what escorts are doing beter then escorts. not even battle cruisers or these single cannon and BO cruisers. i know, i run them too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
You've made statements like this before, once about Single Cannons.

While at the same time, guys in my fleet were running very effective Single Cannon + BO Tac/Cruiser builds in actual Premade matches against very good competition (we didn't actually bring them up on the forums for quite a while because it was more useful to be underestimated).
ive run them effectively as well, at least 2 builds in my help thread feature that combo on cruisers. ive seen yours guy's too, i know they are good. oh but, how are those doing since double tap got taken away from them? not so good?

i have even said single cannons are better then beam arrays at dealing damage in the past, before they fixed FAW's accuracy, and before there was quite a lot of the powercreep thats making all the difference now. i also run tac cruisers with DHCs, not singles, and BO, and they are better at it. my monbosh is better at killing then my maxed out DPS beam avenger is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
You've run too many PUG matches and C&H if you think 1 lone escort is good for anything in a premade.


A lone warbird, sure. Visible escorts on the other hand continue to be devalued.
1 lone escort, pared with anything. another escort, a sci ship, whatever. still is more valuable in a team setting then a cruiser pared with ether of those. beam cruiser + beam cruiser+ beam cruiser, then faw doesn't have the disadvantage it dose when its just 1 or 2 of them. thats when its not so much about how hot you can make beams, but it is actually FAW's 10 shots per cycle thats the problem.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,568
# 23
11-05-2013, 09:57 PM
I think I'm a little lost.....

Why are Beam Scimitars worse then say a FAW Boat Fleet Excelsior?

Is it the Romulan Consoles?

The Romulan Doff/Boff Combinations?

Or something else I'm unaware of?

You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,575
# 24
11-05-2013, 10:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by webdeath View Post
I think I'm a little lost.....

Why are Beam Scimitars worse then say a FAW Boat Fleet Excelsior?

Is it the Romulan Consoles?

The Romulan Doff/Boff Combinations?

Or something else I'm unaware of?

That, with battlecloak boosts, 5 tac consoles, singularity powers for survival and the Comm Tac for even more boost.
Take it easy!

Ishmael@scurry5: A Nibbling Sci
"Squeak?"
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,142
# 25
11-05-2013, 10:25 PM
PVP is fun!

you just gotta be okay with metagame.

have fun kill bad guys!

-acceptance-
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,568
# 26
11-05-2013, 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scurry5 View Post
That, with battlecloak boosts, 5 tac consoles, singularity powers for survival and the Comm Tac for even more boost.
Still not sure how that makes them better when there is the Healer Recluse and the Super Fast JHAS..
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,929
# 27
11-05-2013, 11:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by webdeath View Post
Still not sure how that makes them better when there is the Healer Recluse and the Super Fast JHAS..
It's kinda like how the Recluse and Bug used to be for their respective classes.

For a long time, the Bug was THE escort, period. It was superior at everything an escort could do.

Nowadays, while it's no less weak, there are a lot more arguably comparable options, especially with Romulan ships.

Recluse could be argued to still be the top of the food chain in terms of dedicated healers, but the recently added Obelisk, and some other newer ships, kinda tone that down a bit.

The Scimitar is kind of filling that rule of 'best of the best of the best' in the current meta.

It does what it can do, on a level several times higher than other similar ships.

Yes, there are plenty of ships that can achieve very high numbers, like an Avenger, or a D'kora, or something else like that. But no other ships can get to the level the Scimitar can.

Even taking out Romulan-based power creep (their Sing powers, their BOFFs, their DOFFs, etc), it's still a far superior ship for a FAW build due to that Cmdr tac and Lt. Cmdr uni.

Heck, even take out DOFFs for the moment and have it set up with a Cmdr tac and lt cmdr tac:

TT 1, FAW 2, FAW 3, APB 3
TT 1, anything here, APB 2

That's still a major amount of uptime on the higher level FAW and APB, which means a lot of big debuffs on hull resists from one ship. Plus add in the shield and hull to stay in a fight.

Then start adding in power creep of any kind, and the very solid base the Scimitar has to work on, starts getting MUCH stronger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,720
# 28
11-06-2013, 01:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scurry5 View Post
That, with battlecloak boosts, 5 tac consoles, singularity powers for survival and the Comm Tac for even more boost.
APO3 with that 15 second long declock buff, or maybe DEM2 and APB3. ive seen them just do mind boggling damage that doesn't even make sense. can practically kill you through RSP. no cruiser can do that
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,431
# 29
11-06-2013, 01:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
APO3 with that 15 second long declock buff, or maybe DEM2 and APB3. ive seen them just do mind boggling damage that doesn't even make sense. can practically kill you through RSP. no cruiser can do that
I must agree with you drunk.

Sometimes I was left completely stunned at how well certain things are doing things.

It felt impossible, but one minute I would be full strength cycling my abilities even out of combat, and BOOM. Implosion in under 1 sec. I get completely vaporised with no possibility of reaction.

I don't know how a Scimitar can do that, but definitely pushed me closer to the wall.

Last edited by drkfrontiers; 11-06-2013 at 01:36 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,102
# 30
11-06-2013, 03:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by logicalspock View Post
I am not sure how much I am going to play in the future if it is not rebalanced. It is not fun to join a PuG and watch less experienced players be held helpless by one or two people who are exploiting obvious design flaws in the game to just spam ungodly powerful beams.

Do any other long-time STO players and frequent PvPers feel this way?
As someone who was PvPing about a week or so after the games release, I have to say no.

FAW in a 1v1 match is pretty even. 1v5 (or should I say one fawer in 5 vs 5) and the skill tickles. FAW only becomes an issue when it's a majority of a team using it, but that goes for pretty much anything in this game, including and especially dual heavy cannons.

As for less experience players, if we were to equate PvP with PvE difficulty, it'd be well above elite STFs. Sadly a not so insignificant portion of PvP pug could barely handle a normal STF. They're also likely only doing PvP for the dailies* and as such have no desire to optimize their builds for it. As such these guys will always be cannon fodder, whether they're being hit by FAW, DHCs, transphasics or sci-spam.

Also don't forget that a majority of the hardcore PvPers are using some serious gear, like elite fleet shields and borg-2piece. Hardcore PvPers are used to fighting and beating other hardcore pvp players with that equipment, while a good few pugs are equipped with drops.



*Why I have no idea.

5 ESTs can be done in under 2 hours easily and give you 8300 dilithium (and that's being highly pessimistic) and the Breen dailies can be done under 15 mins and give you 2400 dilithium. PvP is actually the worst method to grind it, given how matches can go on forever.
Previously Alendiak
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
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