Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 292
# 131
11-07-2013, 06:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpalelena View Post
Such fleets sound very effective, I dont doubt they can do it easily.

Also, all tactical consoles got diminishing returns, and I dont see why the fleet ones would not have it.


I would say they need to be at least as good as the Mark XII purples, since they are mark XII ultra purple rare.

So they need to be better than the mark XII purples. Which means they either need to be 30% + some other bonus, or bigger than 30% damage boost.
they don't have diminishing returns, they just only buff the base damage, not the damage after skills and power levels. This is why you can put up to 5 of them in, unlike engineering armor consoles, which are subject to returns, and after the 2nd the thirds all but not worth it, and a 4th or 5th is a total waste of slots.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,928
# 132
11-07-2013, 07:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpalelena View Post
Such fleets sound very effective, I dont doubt they can do it easily.

Also, all tactical consoles got diminishing returns, and I dont see why the fleet ones would not have it.
As explained by verline1, tac consoles don't have diminishing returns. Same applies to sci consoles. Only eng damage resistance consoles have diminishing returns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpalelena View Post
I would say they need to be at least as good as the Mark XII purples, since they are mark XII ultra purple rare.

So they need to be better than the mark XII purples. Which means they either need to be 30% + some other bonus, or bigger than 30% damage boost.
Heh, they now have over 30% damage boost AND a very powerful bonus on top of it. The previous version with around 25% bonus damage and CritH/CritD were already better than Purple Mk XII. And you could even say that universally, because what does higher CritH and CritD mean? More damage. (Note, of course I'm talking about the damage specific tac consoles here.)

Due to the added bonuses, even the Embassy and Dil mine Mk X consoles are better than normal purple Mk XII consoles. Although you may get slightly less of a boost to the main skill these consoles attribute to.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix: Bring in the Allegiance class
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia: Design that long overdue Tier 5 C-Store Raptor
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var: Give us Asylums for Romulans

Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,551
# 133
11-07-2013, 07:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by toiva View Post
As explained by verline1, tac consoles don't have diminishing returns. Same applies to sci consoles. Only eng damage resistance consoles have diminishing returns.
Half true only. Power insulators have diminishing returns. I'm pretty sure the other "sci armor" consoles have similar mechanics, but I've only dealt with the power insulator ones.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 292
# 134
11-07-2013, 07:40 AM
some consoles do, some don't, I do know the armor ones do, and I remember when they changed it and why, it was the same time or right around the time they hard cap armor and shield res too due to engineers getting perfect shields, and perfect or near perfect hull res, and essentially becoming immune to damage in spurts.

They have never bothered with damage though, and as a result its essentially run rampant. its one of the few things that essentially has not been either thoroughly worked over, or beat to death with the nerf bat. it hasn't escaped totally unharmed, but in the scope of things its essentially done nothing but ramp up over time.

we have gotten creep on all sides, but the most telling has been damage, which between doffs, equipment, consoles, and buffs/debuffs, especially tac ones, this is why escorts are king for the most part right now, because damage is king, and nothing else really matters right now.

I used to have a running joke with gaming buddies, "Not winning, apply more dps" and it works in many cases, why, because unless mechanics are crafted specifically to defeat that sort of tactic it always works. don't need a damage sponge, aka tank, if the target dies in 3 secs flat, don't need control powers if everything's dead in 10 secs or less, don't need heals if nothings surviving long enough to over come self support heals. Don't need tactics and coordination if mechanics can be overcome by simply making the target explode faster.

This is what makes damage/dps creep the most damaging really, it edges out everything else to the point of making it more of a hindrance then a help.

Last edited by verline1; 11-07-2013 at 08:42 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 38
# 135
11-07-2013, 07:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by samt1996 View Post
Not large amounts of EC... It requires ALOT of grinding. And they loot capped the foundry... The most you can make is a few hundred thousand EC per day and that is with 2-3 hours of playtime... I don't know about everyone else but I have a life outside of STO. Games shouldn't be harder than real life...
If you are a solid built lvl 50, you can get 700k of drops in a foundry mission each day, per toon. It doesn't take 2-3 hours, it takes at most ten minutes per toon. You have to play foundry missions built for farming, though. Each foundry mission is not created the same. Do not play in elite mode, play in normal mode. You get more ec in normal mode, and it's faster. Don't play the missions where you have to fly about finding foes, it's a waste of time. You want missions with no talk, no unneeded pop up conversations, with foes in nebulas that take down their shields.

I use "New Romulus Defense" by Zadabell. Just sit and shoot, and collect the loot, tap the satellite and map. Four maps, and your done. The cube is the last foe on each map.

A lot of people play "Fed Farm 102", but it is all Klingon ships, so any level can play it. Drops are scaled to the toon playing it, but loot will be lower as it does matter what faction ship you kill as to the value of the drops. Klingon is the lowest. So expect the drops in this mission to be 500k or so for a level 50.

"Griff's farm" yields 600-700k loot and 900 dil ore as the reward, but takes considerably longer to run due to the pop up conversations slowing things down, and a useless end scene.

Do not run the battleship rumble missions, drops are low because other allied and foe ships "steal drops" from you. You have to damage a ship to be eligable to get any drops from it's demise. It's slow too, as shields are up on the targets, and you have to fly around, chasing ships, a total waste of your time.

So pick a good mission to farm, and good luck.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,841
# 136
11-07-2013, 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunmovyn View Post
If you are a solid built lvl 50, you can get 700k of drops in a foundry mission each day, per toon. It doesn't take 2-3 hours, it takes at most ten minutes per toon. You have to play foundry missions built for farming, though. Each foundry mission is not created the same. Do not play in elite mode, play in normal mode. You get more ec in normal mode, and it's faster. Don't play the missions where you have to fly about finding foes, it's a waste of time. You want missions with no talk, no unneeded pop up conversations, with foes in nebulas that take down their shields.

I use "New Romulus Defense" by Zadabell. Just sit and shoot, and collect the loot, tap the satellite and map. Four maps, and your done. The cube is the last foe on each map.

A lot of people play "Fed Farm 102", but it is all Klingon ships, so any level can play it. Drops are scaled to the toon playing it, but loot will be lower as it does matter what faction ship you kill as to the value of the drops. Klingon is the lowest. So expect the drops in this mission to be 500k or so for a level 50.

"Griff's farm" yields 600-700k loot and 900 dil ore as the reward, but takes considerably longer to run due to the pop up conversations slowing things down, and a useless end scene.

Do not run the battleship rumble missions, drops are low because other allied and foe ships "steal drops" from you. You have to damage a ship to be eligable to get any drops from it's demise. It's slow too, as shields are up on the targets, and you have to fly around, chasing ships, a total waste of your time.

So pick a good mission to farm, and good luck.
That's pure luck. The best I have gotten from a farm mission is 500k. Now one tac console is 40000k . That's 80 days for a singel console. Lul what a ripoff.

Good thing that's done now with the Spire.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 292
# 137
11-07-2013, 01:39 PM
I wont argue that the tac MKXII consoles weren't over priced, they were, but they are also top end, end of the line, no other upgrades type things.

People want the absolute best they can have, but many times they can get by, do well, or even do very well with less then the absolute best.

These consoles are the new best thing to have, period. with them buffed up to MKXII level bonus, it just makes their additional numbers all that more insane.

That's what some of us are driving at, dps power creep, these arnt on par with current gear, and just a different flavor, they blow it out of the water, which means damage done goes up yet again.

So we escalate damage, it creeps up yet more, the new stf's with the voth have invuln shields and such, which means being able to get in massive amounts of damage between the shields up and down times will be king, how fast you can kill the ships in storming the spire means more points towards the completion, its a spiral that only leads to a single fix point of, if your not doing dps, using these consoles, your dragging your team down will start to be the mentality.

that's why power creep in almost any direction is bad, with tanks it can eliminate the need for crowd control, and healers. With healers and crowd control it can eliminate the need for tanks, but with DPS it can actually eliminate the need for anything but dps at a certain point.
Commander
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 369
# 138
11-07-2013, 03:52 PM
Wasn't the previous 25.5% + 1.6% crit consoles already better than the current 30% consoles? The only thing the new 31.9% + 1.6% consoles do is widen the gap further between heavy tac console ships and light tac console ships. Is that really something Cryptic wants?

Theres a reason why everyone dumps all of their universal consoles in science and engineering slots. This change just reinforces it.

They've been doing so well in indirectly addressing this disparity between ships in previous patches, too. This is a step in the wrong direction.

Last edited by ruminate00; 11-07-2013 at 03:57 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,841
# 139
11-07-2013, 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruminate00 View Post
Wasn't the previous 25.5% + 1.6% crit consoles already better than the current 30% consoles? The only thing the new 31.9% + 1.6% consoles do is widen the gap further between heavy tac console ships and light tac console ships. Is that really something Cryptic wants?

Theres a reason why everyone dumps all of their universal consoles in science and engineering slots. This change just reinforces it.

They've been doing so well in indirectly addressing this disparity between ships in previous patches, too. This is a step in the wrong direction.
No, 25.5% and +1.6% crit is not as good as 30%.

Also, eng consoles are for armors and RCS if you are a battlecruiser with duals. Sci is for universals.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Commander
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 369
# 140
11-07-2013, 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpalelena View Post
No, 25.5% and +1.6% crit is not as good as 30%.

Also, eng consoles are for armors and RCS if you are a battlecruiser with duals. Sci is for universals.
That was a rhetorical question. 25.5% and +1.6% crit is, infact, better than 30%.

4.5% is a multiplier of a weapon's base damage. Base damage of a weapon is calculated before MK upgrades, DMG mods, and skill training.

1.6% is a multiplier of your total damage. Total damage occurs after MK upgrades, DMG mods, console bonuses, and skill training. This multiplier is further enhanced the more crit damage % you have.

4.5% of a base 100 is 4.5.
1.6% of a total 500 is 8.
1.6%, with a crit damage multiplier of 150%, is 12.
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