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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 594
# 31
11-09-2013, 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by newromulan1 View Post
Most of the other things mentioned above - the participants moderate who goes against who. If cryptic does noting else with PvP it is the players fault just as much as theirs - why? Because most of those vets rolling pugs are doing it just for fun! And if they don't know they are killing PvP by driving off New players they are just stupid - but I highly suspect they know exactly what they are doing and just to care about the long-term health of pvp. So people saying don't blame the players are just being neive.

Is it my fault for pugging it? Sure. Is it their fault for helping to reduce PvP player population -definitely - don't say they don't no better. At a certain point when you get to be so good you should not be puggng it with players - like myself - who PvP only a few times per week.

This concern of scaring people off PvP should be even more in the minds of KDF players so that eventually no-one q's for fvk. At this point cryptic has taken a hands of approach to PvP - promises will most likely never be fulfilled. Therefore it is even more important then ever that the vets take the lead. The demise or rise of pvp really is all up to them.
If you pug expect Player unknowns with Fail builds for both sides, anyone with experiance will survive longer than the new player, fact. Players come and go in PVP, if you go, that would be sad to lose another potential PVPER, but the PVP train will still roll on with or without you.

It's an unstoppable steam train, you can get on or off, but it won't affect where it's going.

don't blame people who are better than new players for queuing up. VETS is a very broad name to name anyone who has PVPed really.

How do you define a VET? someone who has played 1-5 PUGS? or has been a STO account holder for more than a year? there are those who have been around for 2 or more years and are still sub standard in PVP as they only play alone and Captain kirk it.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
/channel_join Tyler Durden for Organised Balanced PVP matches
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 257
# 32
11-09-2013, 04:46 PM
As far as this 'rolling pugs' goes - im not sure thats the real issue. People who like to pvp are naturally going to be good because they practice, discuss, theorycraft etc - and they naturally populate the ques - you cant begrudge pvp 'vets' for playing.

The reason people fee like they are just there to roll pugs is that the amount of people interested in pvp is abysmally low, and if 2 premades are in the ques they can pretty much dominate all the casual players. - If there was more of an interest in pvp, a casual player might have a chance at having an even match against other casual players, but then.... casual players are chased away from pvp because of the few premades..... Im not sure there is a solution. The learing curve, and the disperity between the player skill of casuals to veterans is too much.

Speaking for myself, I wouldnt rate myself as casual, but I am certainly not your 'veteran' either. I feel slimy pugging because I can rail casual players, but I cant hang against grizzled premades because im just not good enough.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,474
# 33
11-09-2013, 08:02 PM
Double post for some reason sorry.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.

Last edited by antoniosalieri; 11-09-2013 at 08:06 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,474
# 34
11-09-2013, 08:03 PM
I know where the sentiment comes from... and I think I agree with newrom.

Cryptic is #1 to blame for the state of pvp... but in many ways Vet PvPers are not to far behind in a lot of ways.

I know I got board playing my klinks long ago party for that reason.

I am not taking anything away from people playing klink now or then... nor am I blaming them and singling them out. It was just that it was a small population of people that where hard core pvpers and had pimped rides... and almost always knew what to do with them... and in almost every case pug matches where a slaughter fest... and even kerrat 99% of the time was the same way... picking off folks that where just inferior to the point that it wasn't much fun picking on them anymore.

What would annoy me to the point where I would find myself being vocal in zone chats... was when that level of players would end up with 2-3 p2w consoles strapped on to top it off.

Its not that I honestly find most of the P2W consoles that bad... the issue is NEW PLAYERS perceive them to be pure pay to win. So what happens is they get beat 99% by team work... and players that are honest PvP players... and all they remember is that on of there 10 deaths happneed after someone dumped an AMS or Aceton on there heads.

It is all about perception of new players... all they hear is "you need your rep" "Accx3 or don't bother" "Lockbox ships or your holding your team back" "Fleet shields are the only option" "get your borg 2 piece" "get your other borg 2 piece" "get a marion doff and your life will be better" "you really need helmsman... everyone else has it" "Leech you have to drop that 2mil on the leech or you will be down power vs everyone else".

I could go on and on and on... and as someone with EC I buy those things... I could only imagine how a New Player would feel if they asked for honest advice in Opvp. They would honestly get that list... and after doing some quick calculations... they would likely just say to themselves. I don't think I really like PvP that much... forget it.

We need to stop making it worse... by taking our Premade Pimp boats out in pugs and then throwing the cherries out there in the forms of console skills that just frustrate new people even more.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 726
# 35
11-09-2013, 08:10 PM
Agreed sir , I say fly a pug build and have fun, it's the only reason I really pvp at all after so long. Premade was just too stressful and at times brought out the worst in people (not saying that to all folks, just from some). People are going to do what they are going to do, but have fun and try to star trek it
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 182
# 36
11-10-2013, 11:32 PM
I agree with the op a lot on this subject. The way to solve the pug stomping problem tho is to start to fight fire with fire. If you see it's a pre made, just warp out. I refuse to take part in a match that's not going to be fun and taking a pug stomping is not fun imo.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 726
# 37
11-11-2013, 03:08 AM
Lol, except that those premades are beaten at times, and you can't really define a pre made just because they have the same fleet name (I would know, rolled some as a pug)... my guiding point is if I recognize the majority of their names from the opvp channel lol, then I'm just like "muther****er pre made" and play through, then gg them after because you cant really help but laugh and have fun (at least for me, but then again I'm pretty easy going). Never give up, Never surrender.
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Chillax. No Ego. No Drama.

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Last edited by talzerotwo; 11-11-2013 at 03:48 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 594
# 38
11-11-2013, 04:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by talzerotwo View Post
Lol, except that those premades are beaten at times, and you can't really define a pre made just because they have the same fleet name (I would know, rolled some as a pug)... my guiding point is if I recognize the majority of their names from the opvp channel lol, then I'm just like "muther****er pre made" and play through, then gg them after because you cant really help but laugh and have fun (at least for me, but then again I'm pretty easy going). Never give up, Never surrender.
Wish more people has the same attitude as you, no QQ or taunting, just plain old PVP and GG at the end.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
/channel_join Tyler Durden for Organised Balanced PVP matches
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 182
# 39
11-11-2013, 04:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by g0h4n4 View Post
Wish more people has the same attitude as you, no QQ or taunting, just plain old PVP and GG at the end.
So you wish more people would delude themselves and be fine with unfair and uncompetitive game play. Sorry but I do not see that as happening. Really people want to blame Cryptic for the state of pvp but it has far more to do with the people doing pvp. There is groups that are going around and driving people out of pvp. Less people pvping, means less reason to do anything to improve it.

Last edited by genada; 11-11-2013 at 04:57 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 726
# 40
11-11-2013, 04:55 AM
Life is what you make it out to be, smiles all day
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